Downstairs Toilets.

R

Reggy

Guest
Toilet for disabled in private house

I've just heard that if I build a new house, the downstairs toilet must be big enough for wheelchair access. Does this also mean that you must install the higher toilet, handrails etc. that you see in public toilets with wheelchair access? This house would be a private dwelling.
 
Toilet for disabled in private house

According to Part M of the building regulations 2000 - all new dwelling should have a bathroom suitable for disable persons use and also a bedrooom at ground level where there is no lift suitable for wheelchair use.

Besides the bathroom and bedroom, all the entrance area should have a ramp with handrails; the entrance step should be a max of 15mm. In addition all ground level doors should be wide enough for wheelchair use.
 
I know that our new house thats being built as part of an estate at the moment has a ridiculously large downstairs loo. We were told it was because of new regulations and also that the light switches have to be a certain height and the doors a certain width. Didn't hear anything about a downstairs bedroom. There won't be handrails etc so that must not be a requirement.

If the downstairs loo didn't have to be so big we would have a bigger kitchen so I'm a bit peeved - the intention is to turn the room into a utility room in a few years.
 
If the downstairs loo didn't have to be so big we would have a bigger kitchen so I'm a bit peeved - the intention is to turn the room into a utility room in a few years.
Click to expand...
Just wait until you have a wheelchair-bound person in your circle of friends and s/he turns down your invitation to party/dinner on the grounds that s/he wouldn't be able to take a leak all night.
 
I think it should be optional rather than a legal requirement when building a house. I have one cousin in a wheelchair who gets around fine when using a normal-sized downstairs loo in other peoples houses.

Ok if I could afford a big house then the size of the loo wouldn't matter but at the moment the room is taking over too much of the ground floor space. It's the same in the many showhouses I've seen over the past few months.
 
I have one cousin in a wheelchair who gets around fine when using a normal-sized downstairs loo in other peoples houses.
Click to expand...

Aren't most 'normal-sized downstairs loos' squeezed in under the stairs and physically impossible for a wheelchair user to get into?
 
This regulation now means that some houses are being built without a downstairs loo of any description. I dunno if that's progress?
 
Does anyone know how (if at all) this regulation affects someone who wants to build an understairs toilet in their house?
 
here's your answer:

“The requirement of Part M apply to new buildings, to extensions to existing buildings and to works in connection with material alternations. Where access to an extension is to be through an existing building, the requirement for access to an entrance will apply to the entrance to the existing building only if that entrance is being materially altered”
 
Aren't most 'normal-sized downstairs loos' squeezed in under the stairs and physically impossible for a wheelchair user to get into?
Click to expand...

Have to say I never watched him going to the loo but I'd say he went at some point whilst in other peoples houses.

Thankfully I don't have any friends or likely regular visitors to my new house, who need a wheelchair but still the room is sitting there taking up loads of space.
 
Thankfully I don't have any friends or likely regular visitors to my new house, who need a wheelchair
Click to expand...

Why "thankfully"? :|
 
I'm likely to get branded uncaring or whatever and so I'll frame this question as carefully as I can because I don't want to cause offense to anyone. It so happens that I have no acquaintances confined to a wheelchair. Nor am I. Is it really equitable that I should have my home adapted to suit wheelchair-bound people, when it's unlikely that any will be wanting to use the toilet in the home, for the duration ofmy tenure?

I can fully appreciate that public-access buildings should be wheelchair-accessible. I also believe that people buying houses in new developments should have the option of buying a wheelchair-accessible house. But I don't really agree that all houses should be built to accomodate wheelchairs at a cost of usable living space.
 
Toilet for disabled in private house

Why "thankfully"? "

- I'm assuming Cahir means thankfully none of his/her friends have been in a serious accident or have been disabled (for the want of a better word)
 
Why "thankfully"?
Click to expand...

I'm glad that my friends are fortunate enough to have full use of their legs. I'm hardly going to wish that they're disabled now am I???
Thankfully I'm not in a wheelchair, thankfully I'm not deaf, thankfully I'm not blind....etc..etc...

I fully agree with Liams points above - think he put it better.
 
I guess the regulation is aimed at setting this minimum standard. The real question isn't 'Have I got any disabled family or friends?' - the real question is 'Will a disabled person ever need to use this loo?' - Unless you have a crystal ball, you can't answer this question in the negative, as it would include;

- Anyone in your family/friends who may become disabled in the future?
- Any disabled person who may want to purchase your property?
- Any disabled person who is family/friend of any prospective future purchaser of this house?

You could apply the same 'I will never need it' logic to things like fire escapes, but we generally don't.
 
well said rainyday.

The regulations are mainly to avoid any discrimination to anyone who is unfortunate enough to be confined to a wheelchair. Persons with disabilities should be able to enter a public building or private house without assistance. Whatever your opinion on this matter; it is now the law to design buildings with the provision of “disabled access” in mind.
 
paddyirishman, Thanks for your response above, but I'm still a little confused, am I to take from the above that if I wanted to build a bathroom under the stairs in my house (which I very much doubt could be wheelchair accessible) I can't do it?
 
Hi Rainyday,

If I or a family member was confined to a wheelchair, I would have the house converted, or if that wasn't possible, I would move to a more suitable house. Apart from the downstairs loo issue, my house is grossly unsuitable in it's basic design for a wheelchair-bound person, given a proliferation of stairs and landings. So I wouldn't expect to sell it on to a physically disabled person either.

The fire escape analogy isn't really appropriate - a fire escape is necessary because a fire may occur without any notice and as a life-threatening emergency. The requirement of wheelchair access is not going to be an emergency or without notice. In other words, if I need it, I have time to build it, or sell the house, unlike a fire escape.

My point remains that I don't believe it's fair to amend building regulations for all to suit a particular minority. My house is unsuitable for anyone suffering from obesity due to hypothyroidism but I don't expect the regulations to compel all houses to have wider doors. It's unsuitable for short people because all the switches and fuseboxes assume a certain height. It's unsuitable for people without arms, because again the electrical switches require dexterity of hands. Believe me - I'm genuinely not trying to be facetious with these examples - I'm just trying to understand why one group (wheelchair users) have their needs put into building regulations for all, above others.
 
Hi Liam

I feel strongly about this topic as I've become friendly with a wheelchair-bound gentleman over the past year or so. He is an extremely independent person, with his own house/car/job. However, I've been horrified by the impact of inaccessibility in normal day-to-day living. I've seen him having to scoot up the side laneway and take a leak before entering the pub, as he knows the pub has no wheelchair accessible toilet. Quite how he managed to take a leak in a dark laneway, I don't know - & I don't really want to know. And of course, he has no where to wash his hands. I've seen him having to leave a house party after 90 minutes as he would be unable to take a leak without having all the fuss & bother of getting three untrained guys to lift his wheelchair up the stairs (& round the three bends on the stairs) - no mean feat in itself with untrained lifters.

Also, when my mother became ill some years ago, taking her into our home was not possible due to lack of wheelchair accessibility. We had two months notice of her requirements.

It is foolish to say that "The requirement of wheelchair access is not going to be an emergency or without notice" unless of course your personal psychic assures you each morning that you're not going to be involved in a traffic accident that takes away use of your legs (as happened my friend). He had about 6 weeks notice (i.e. 6 weeks full-time in hospital after his accident) that he would need a wheelchair-accessible house. Is that enough time to buy/sell/modify a house?

Comparision with hyperthyroidism, dwarfism, paraplegics seems to be a diversionary tactic. Just because we don't look after these people doesn't mean we shouldn't look after the wheelchair-bound. If we try to look after these people, you can list off another thousand medical conditions that we don't support - Are you seriously suggesting that we should do nothing about ANY of these until we can do them all simultaenously? On a more practical note, I would guess that the number of people wheelchair-bound would outnumber the number of people disabled by any of these conditions, so it is good common sense to look after wheelchair-bound persons first.

And what is the big problem with a regulation that insists on wheelchair-accessible downstairs toilets. Tommy rightly points out the one weakness/loophole that the builders have not surprisingly exploited, but is it really too much to ask that able-bodied persons put up with just a slightly smaller kitchen to ensure that my friend and others like him can take a leak indoors?
 
Dowee,

no you don't in your case. the regulations are mainly pointed at new buildings / houses and existing houses involving major renovation works.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top