Does the government need to recapitalize Irish banks?

There are a couple of additional points that I would like to raise having re-read this thread.

Debates on loan losses aside, the events of the past 18 months have dramatically altered the perception of risk within the banking industry. The minimum 'acceptable' levels of equity capital are now higher than they were before the credit cruch began. Currently, the level of core Tier 1 equity capital for every Irish bank (bar IL&P) falls short of the new acceptable norms. Were economic conditions more supportive, the banks might be able to gradually increase their capital bases without resorting to their shareholders but I don't think that this is an option in the current environment. So, in the post credit crunch world, the financial markets are demanding lower risk profiles from the banks that they are being asked to fund and i do not believe that any bank that is accused of having too little capital can simply ignore calls to remedy this.

Separately, I am not convinced that AIB and BOI are that only banks deserving of government support should additional capital be required. I appreciate that the two largest banks in the country need to survive but I wonder is it right to simply discard the rest? Would we really be better off if AIB and BOI where to only two banks to emerge from this recession? What about future competition within the industry?

To date, I really cannot see that ANY of the banks have demonstrated that they are deserving of state cash should it be required. I am really concerned that we would have to create a national champion because no one bank has emerged from this debacle with its reputation or balance sheet intact. No single institution was possessed of enough sense to limit their exposure to an overheating property market.
 
Bank of Ireland's market capitalization now is just €900m.

Given that the government is taking all the downside in terms of its guarantee, it should simply buy the bank and use it to refinance the Irish economy.

It could sell off the Life business for around €1billion. It could close down or sell off the oveseas activities.

It would end up owning the Irish business for nothing. If the bank recovers, then the Irish taxpayer would get a great windfall.

If the Bank of Ireland is insolvent, which I doubt it is, the taxpayer will be discharging its liabilities anyway.

Brendan
 
I am sure that this is being considered as one of the options for the industry but who would run the bank when it is in public ownership? I reckon that the government should announce a plan to inject funds via high-yielding preference shares. This should not cause further pain for the ordinary shareholders and would also remove the uncertainty that is killing the companies.

As an aside, some of the recent weakness in the share prices of the Irish banks is due to their upcoming ejection from a number of pan-European equity indices (BOI leaves one tonight). This, coupled with low trading volume is exacerbating share price movements.
 
If high yielding preference shares are issued, does this not leave ordinary shares worthless ?

I'm a shareholder and also an employee of BOI. Scary times !
 
If high yielding preference shares are issued, does this not leave ordinary shares worthless ?

Thinking longer term, and assuming the banks will have to be recapitalised preference shares are likely to be the route the govt will go. What I am wondering is how hard a deal the govt will strike with the banks regarding existing shareholders (the directors should go of course). If they wipe out the ordinary shareholders, where will that leave the Irish stock market and Irish companies listed there who go looking for capital in the future? Will international investors shun the Irish market and view it as in the same league as Argentina? I would guess that the government would want to leave something behind for existing shareholders so would that make the shares a buy?
 
If high yielding preference shares are issued, does this not leave ordinary shares worthless ?

I'm a shareholder and also an employee of BOI. Scary times !

Preference shares are usually non-voting but have preferential rights to dividends. As an ordinary shareholder this is probably the best outcome. No more ordinary shares will be issued but you will probably not receive any dividends until the preference shares have been redeemed/repaid.

This is the route the UK government is taking in providing capital to UK banks. As far as I know most banks would hope to repay this loan/buyback the shares within 2 years.
 
Hi Duke

You are correct. The government is taking most of the downside. The shareholders in Bank of Ireland stand to lose around €1billion at the moment. The tax payer stands to lose a lot more due to the guarantee.

Brendan
 
But wouldn't it be true to say that a lot of shareholders are taxpayers ?

There are a lot more people affected through pension & investment plans.
 
But wouldn't it be true to say that a lot of shareholders are taxpayers ?

There are a lot more people affected through pension & investment plans.
So they will get hit twice or three times. But that money has already been earned and spent. The taxpayer could be on the hook for billions in liabilities that will be paid for in poorer public services for the next generation. Think I'm being alarmist? Nobody is going to buy short-dated Irish government debt because they can buy Irish government guaranteed bank short-term debt at a better yield. So the government will be issuing long-dated debt in the event the guarantee is called upon. And they will have to issue over a range of dates up to thirty years. And probably at a fruity yield (since every other government in the world is issuing huge amounts of debt). Each and every year the government will have to put a significant proportion of its income into servicing the national debt.

But of course, we'll all be grand. Sure those bankers are smart fellows; went to university and all and know each other well and know all the politicians too. They'll see that we aren't out of pocket... won't they?
 
Hi Duke

You are correct. The government is taking most of the downside. The shareholders in Bank of Ireland stand to lose around €1billion at the moment. The tax payer stands to lose a lot more due to the guarantee.

Brendan

Don't want to get bogged down in a semantic argument. I still think the risk of actual insolvency is quite small - this is what the government is insuring against, they still argue that it is a small contingent liability. The shareholders on the other hand stand to lose all the net assets up to the point of insolvency. The market value of 1Bn is an assessment of what will be left after these loan losses.

The argument for state capitalisation seems to revolve around the state being the only one with the stomach to lend into a recession. The banks, acting prudently (for a change;)), are not prepared to take the risks which are necessary to avoid a severe economic downturn.

In summary. If the government recapitalises the banks in some shape or form the taxpayer is definitely taking on a much greater short term financial risk than the mere guarantee. But, and I am starting to believe this, the taxpayer might need to take these risks for the long term good of the economy.
 
Don't want to get bogged down in a semantic argument. I still think the risk of actual insolvency is quite small - this is what the government is insuring against, they still argue that it is a small contingent liability. The shareholders on the other hand stand to lose all the net assets up to the point of insolvency. The market value of 1Bn is an assessment of what will be left after these loan losses.

The argument for state capitalisation seems to revolve around the state being the only one with the stomach to lend into a recession. The banks, acting prudently (for a change;)), are not prepared to take the risks which are necessary to avoid a severe economic downturn.

In summary. If the government recapitalises the banks in some shape or form the taxpayer is definitely taking on a much greater short term financial risk than the mere guarantee. But, and I am starting to believe this, the taxpayer might need to take these risks for the long term good of the economy.
Haven't put much thought into this arguement, but does the fact that the buffer between assets and liabilities has fallen €17bn make the €1bn market capitalisation remaining a very slim margin against further negative news? I understand that much of the loss in market capitalisation was as much to do with the loss of expected future growth but it seems to me that the banks have no handle on the level of bad debts and the projections for these will only go one way unless someone seriously stimulates the economy
 
The talk of what form the capitalisation will take is just speculation at the moment, but some in the media have been suggesting that the smaller banks will be merged into the larger ones as part of the process. IMO this would be a very retrograde step and would leave a very uncompetitive banking system in the island when the dust settles.
The foreign-owned banks are likely to view the Irish market as very low priority and if we are left with just the two big bank it will be just like the bad old uncompetitive days again.
 
Dan White's article in today's Herald is worth a read.
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/column...s-control-of-our-disgraced-banks-1543327.html
The end bit:
...
The Government should ignore the bank bosses. They are now totally discredited. While they might seem to think that the banks can get by without fresh capital, no-one else now believes that.

By delaying the much-needed recapitalisation, the bank bosses are threatening to make a bad situation even worse.

The sooner the Government seizes control of the banks and pumps in the fresh capital, which they desperately need to start lending again, the better.
 
Is recapitalisation now inevitable? From what I've been reading this morning, it looks like it is.
 
Is recapitalisation now inevitable? From what I've been reading this morning, it looks like it is.

Its been inevitable for a while now. I think Eugene Sheehy can safely start clearing out his desk or will he try and back down from his "we would rather die than raise capital" statement.
 

The bank bosses are going down and they want to take the banks with them. Their only hope of keeping their jobs is reliant on keeping some kind of zombie banking system afloat without government intervention.

Time to clear them all out. Get tough on their crony developer friends. And get some profitable new lending going, backed by public funds if needs be.

My suggestions for how the banks could recapitalise are as follows:

1. Sell off the insurance part of their business, in many cases this will raise more money than their current market capitalisation (In Irish Life's case, probably at least 3 times it!)

2. Inject public cash to get safe/profitable borrwing going again (only 1 in 7 applicants now get approval for car finance!)

3. Force the builders to cut prices and get things moving. example - A large number of almost completed apartments in The Grange, Stillorgan are being held back until at least next year by the developer. The asking price is €600k. They won't get this now so they wait and the bank sits on it's hands until they try sell them. Solution? Cut the prices to €400k (cost) and they'll sell. The bank will be recapitalised. The current situation is merely the developer gambling with the banks money
 
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