Does my Revolut Account qualify as a Foreign Account for Remittance Tax Basis?

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DublinHead54

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Hi,

I am resident but Non-Domiciled in Ireland. I had an old UK account from my childhood that holds proceeds of a house sale, but it is a pain to access and I want to transfer to revolut for more convenience.

I don't want to fall foul of remittance tax as I plan to use the funds in the UK. My simple assumption is if I transfer them to my GBP revolut account it still qualifies as foreign as the GBP account is based in the UK with a UK sort code and UK address?

Further I assume if I ever converted the funds to euro in Ireland I would be subject to remittance tax as the revolut EUR account is based in Ireland? On a similar note if I held a Euro account using my Irish address but the bank was based in another european country it would be considered foreign?

Cheers
 
DublinHead54 said:
My simple assumption is if I transfer them to my GBP revolut account it still qualifies as foreign as the GBP account is based in the UK with a UK sort code and UK address?
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Yes and no.

Technically it is not remitted but only in the basis that you have a UK address. I suspect in Revolut T&Cs and also your other UK bank you are obliged to inform them of a change of address if you are resident in Ireland.

Otherwise don’t try to imagine that your GBP and EUR balances are separate accounts. In the eyes of Revolut you are one person at one address with one IBAN. I would argue that you have a single account with balances in different currencies.
 
Dr Strangelove said:
Yes and no.

Technically it is not remitted but only in the basis that you have a UK address. I suspect in Revolut T&Cs and also your other UK bank you are obliged to inform them of a change of address if you are resident in Ireland.

Otherwise don’t try to imagine that your GBP and EUR balances are separate accounts. In the eyes of Revolut you are one person at one address with one IBAN. I would argue that you have a single account with balances in different currencies.
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I don't think that is 100% accurate, I don't need to have a UK address, domicile status refers to where you are born. I believe the 'foreign status' refers to where the assets are located rather than the address of the individual otherwise there wouldn't be a remittance tax basis. I do need a UK address to set up a foreign bank account though.

In revolut the GBP account does have a separate sort-code but it looks all to be linked to the one account.

Are there any options for setting up a foreign bank account in either GBP or EUR?
 
DublinHead54 said:
I don't think that is 100% accurate,
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What is not accurate?


The Revenue language is “the tax shall, subject to section 70, be computed on the full amount of the actual sums received in the State from remittances payable in the State, or from property imported, or from money or value arising from property not imported, or from money or value so received on credit or on account in respect of such remittances, property, money or value brought into the State in the year of assessment without any deduction or abatement”.

The language is a bit archaic but it looks in simple language that remittance basis of taxation arises when you bring the funds physically into Ireland. This is of course difficult to translate into how modern banking works with entities like Revolut having customers of many domiciles in many jurisdictions using many currencies!

But circling back to the wording above, Revenue could argue that if (a) you are resident in Ireland; (b) have a Revolut account you use extensively for Irish income and spending in EUR; (c) you transfer GBP funds into that Revolut account; then you are "remitting" it to Ireland.

OTOH if you have the funds in GBP in a UK-only bricks and mortar bank which offers sterling-only services then it's impossible for Revenue to claim that this has been remitted to Ireland.

I am trying to think form over substance here. It's hard to believe that remittance occurs when you convert from GBP to EUR within the Revolut account, an action that takes a second. Likewise you can't avoid remittance by running your Revolut account from a UK address when you are resident in Ireland.


I am not a tax adviser and you might want to seek the advice of same. I'm curious to hear other opinions too.
 
It depends where Revolut is located (Lithuania, no?) and where and when you spend the money.

If Revolut is in Lithuania and you don’t use the card in Ireland, fine. If it’s in Ireland, not fine. And if you use the card in Ireland, not fine.
 
Isn't this a bit form over substance Gordon? Revolut is an app on your phone. No one has ever visited a branch or received a statement in the post. The different currency balances are displayed side by side and transfer is instant at minimal cost.

Take a person resident in Ireland but domiciled in the UK who receives the profits from a UK house sale to their Revolut account. It seems odd that someone set up with the UK Revolut entity would not be remitting while if they were set up with the Irish Revolut entity they would be remitting.

Point on where the funds are spent is relevant though.
 
Note, I'm not trying to avoid paying tax. I'm just trying to avoid accidentally having to pay tax.

With revolut though I think the argument on the face of it is the GBP "account" has a UK address and sort code. Rather than it just being a currency display.

For example if I open up Revolut for the first time to hold only my UK assets or other EUR assets from say Germany. I only use my Revolut card when I'm in UK or Germany. Revolut is based in Lithuania but they give me an Irish IBAN. Have I remitted assets to Ireland?
 
I am in the same scenario and took independent tax advise. I tried to keep things as simple as possible. I have a DeGiro account, that is a German broker with a German IBAN and address. DeGiro is not present in Ireland. I have also a N26 bank account, again is a german bank, with a german address and German IBAN. I have shares where I get dividends and CGT when I sell shares with DeGiro. I transfer the profits from my Degiro german account to my N26 German bank account and only use my N26 card in Spain where I'm from and where I'm domiciled and where I go various times a year on holiday and stay in the house that I own. The independent tax advisor told me that as long as I hold no ETFs and my shares all denominated in euros as long as I spend the funds in Spain I have no tax liabilities in Ireland. If I had shares denominated in foreign currency, in Ireland I'm only liable to the 33% tax on the currency gain when I sell the shares. Since my shares are all in €€€ I don't even have to worry about any potential taxes due to foreign currency, if any. Also I don't think the remittance basis has anything to do with your home address, or which address you registered with he bank, it has to do with where you spend the foreign sourced capital. So if you live in Ireland of course your address is in Ireland even if you are not domiciled in Ireland. Of course you are supposed to give your Irish address to the bank, you live in Ireland !!! still this has nothing to do with being non domiciled. If your remit the funds abroad your Irish home address that you gave to the bank doesn't mean that the funds are remitted to Ireland.
 
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DublinHead54 said:
With revolut though I think the argument on the face of it is the GBP "account" has a UK address and sort code.
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On substance IBAN and sort code aren't relevant nor is the address as you aren’t actually UK resident !

The more I think of it a major factor is which deposit or investor guarantee scheme your funds are protected by. If it’s Lithuania or the UK then it’s very hard for Revenue to argue that funds have been remitted.
 
NuriaF said:
I am in the same scenario and took independent tax advise. I tried to keep things as simple as possible. I have a DeGiro account, that is a German broker with a German IBAN and address. DeGiro is not present in Ireland. I have also a N26 bank account, again is a german bank, with a german address and German IBAN. I have shares where I get dividends and CGT when I sell shares with DeGiro. I transfer the profits from my Degiro german account to my N26 German bank account and only use my N26 card in Spain where I'm from and where I'm domiciled and where I go various times a year on holiday and stay in the house that I own. The independent tax advisor told me that as long as I hold no ETFs and my shares all denominated in euros as long as I spend the funds in Spain I have no tax liabilities in Ireland. If I had shares denominated in foreign currency, in Ireland I'm only liable to the 33% tax on the currency gain when I sell the shares. Since my shares are all in €€€ I don't even have to worry about any potential taxes due to foreign currency, if any. Also I don't think the remittance basis has anything to do with your home address, or which address you registered with he bank, it has to do with where you spend the foreign sourced capital. So if you live in Ireland of course your address is in Ireland even if you are not domiciled in Ireland. Of course you are supposed to give your Irish address to the bank, you live in Ireland !!! still this has nothing to do with being non domiciled. If your remit the funds abroad your Irish home address that you gave to the bank doesn't mean that the funds are remitted to Ireland.
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Hi @NuriaF / All,

I am in a similar situation as you. I am an Irish tax resident (Stamp 4). I am non-domiciled (born and raised in Asia). I opened an account with Interactive Brokers for shares in Jan 2024.

Interactive Brokers has headquarters in USA but for EU customers they ask to transfer funds to their bank account (J.P. MORGAN) in Germany. I transfer in Euros however the share purchase and sale is in USD.

I haven't withdrawn any profits or investment yet. I plan to open a N26 account in Germany and withdraw my profits in N26 and spend them outside Ireland (my home country or elsewhere).

If I bring my original investment (not the profit) back to my Irish account, will there be any tax implications?

Regards,
 
I'm no tax expert here but while in Ireland you can bring your original capital called "Clean Capital" to Ireland without incurring a tax liability. However, clean capital must be appropriately segregated so that it cannot be mixed with foreign income and gains arising from that capital after you become tax resident in Ireland. Mixing clean capital with post-arrival foreign income or gains from that foreign capital will create a “mixed fund”. If you remit capital to Ireland from this mixed fund you will be taxed first on the income made from that capital after you moved to Ireland. See this link for a better explanation https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/remittance-basis-mixed-funds.232244/ . In my personal case, I'm in the same situation as you but with the difference that I have no intention of remitting neither my original capital to Ireland nor the gains made from it. I plan to move it to Spain my home country when I retire hopefully in a few years.
 
NuriaF said:
I'm no tax expert here but while in Ireland you can bring your original capital called "Clean Capital" to Ireland without incurring a tax liability. However, clean capital must be appropriately segregated so that it cannot be mixed with foreign income and gains arising from that capital after you become tax resident in Ireland. Mixing clean capital with post-arrival foreign income or gains from that foreign capital will create a “mixed fund”. If you remit capital to Ireland from this mixed fund you will be taxed first on the income made from that capital after you moved to Ireland. See this link for a better explanation https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/remittance-basis-mixed-funds.232244/ . In my personal case, I'm in the same situation as you but with the difference that I have no intention of remitting neither my original capital to Ireland nor the gains made from it. I plan to move it to Spain my home country when I retire hopefully in a few years.
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Thanks @NuriaF
 
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