Does ICS discriminate between new and existing customers?

pguyo said:
I applied was offered a variable rate at first 0.3% higher than available to new business(drop of .25% for us) and when I pushed for a fixed rate they came back 0.5% higher than new business rate drop of .5% for us)
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Hi pg

Take a screenshot of the calculator and demand the new business variable rate.

You won't have a right to the lower fixed rates.

Brendan
 
RedOnion said:
"Fixed rate repayment is applicable for the fixed rate period only. After the fixed rate period, the prevailing new business LTV variable rates apply to the mortgage amount; this rate will be determined by the Loan to Value at initial drawdown."
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Hi Red

That is a great weapon for people to use.

Have you a link to it?

Brendan
 
Thanks Red. I had seen that page, but had not scrolled down.

I attach the two documents in case anyone needs them in future.
 

Attachments

  • ICS Variable_Rate_Policy_Statement_-_May_2021 (1).pdf
    157.1 KB · Views: 181
  • ICS Mortgages Home Loan Calculator _ 25th November 2021.pdf
    183.8 KB · Views: 234
From the variable rate policy statement, they are quite open that they do discriminate between new and existing customers.

We can apply different variable interest rates to customers depending on for example when
you borrow your mortgage or the risk associated with a mortgage.

It conflicts with the calculator, but in any dispute, the wording more favourable to the customer would be used.
 
I got an official response from Avant:


Existing owner occupier mortgages originated under Dilosk’s ICS Mortgages brand can avail of our new fixed and variable rates, subject to our lending guidelines.

Customers should contact ICS Mortgages to discuss their mortgage options, including switching to a fixed-rate product or availing of these new variable rates.

Existing owner-occupier customers on a variable rate are permitted to avail of alternative fixed rate products, subject to their mortgage terms and conditions.

Existing owner-occupier customers on a fixed rate are permitted to avail of alternative products, fixed or variable, subject to the terms of their offer letter which includes the payment of the applicable early repayment charge and their mortgage terms and conditions.
 
The first line is very clear
If you took out an owner-occupier mortgage with ICS then you can avail of the rates on offer to new business.

The problem with this
1) It does not say so on the website
2) Pguyo has been told the very opposite
3) The later lines in the statement seem to contradict it.
 
@pguyo

Could you confirm

1) It is an owner occupied mortgage
2) You took it out under the ICS brand
3) They have refused you the new business rates.

Thanks

Brendan
 
First off thanks everyone for highlighting this.

The mortgage is on our PPR but was taken out in 2011 under Bank Of Ireland mortgages maybe. Think it was a version of ICS at the time???
It was part of the 250 million of mortgages taken over by Dilosk but I cant remember the year. Maybe 2014 or 2015?
We self built nearer home and then had to rent out our first home. We have just sold the first house in the last number of days and unbelievably made a profit.

I have spoken to the same customer rep every time I ring and he had put through my requests for a rate review as detailed above.
He confirmed to me that the new business rates were not available to me as I was an existing customer.

Our LTV is circa 30-35 % and that is me being very conservative and never had credit issues.
 
I wonder can you switch from old ICS to new ICS?
Then as a new customer you would get the new customer rates.

Not sure why they make such a distinction.

Brendan
 
There is clearly nuance here which may explain it.

The poster seems to be a legacy ‘old’ ICS customer on a different book of business.

As Brendan suggests, I don’t see why they can’t switch internally.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I wonder can you switch from old ICS to new ICS?
Then as a new customer you would get the new customer rates.

Not sure why they make such a distinction.

Brendan
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This is the one company. ICS old or new. They cherry picked the performing mortgages from B of I. We had no say in our mortgage being sold to Dilosk and they have decided to discriminate against us.
 
pguyo said:
This is the one company. ICS old or new. They cherry picked the performing mortgages from B of I. We had no say in our mortgage being sold to Dilosk and they have decided to discriminate against us.
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Does the press statement not say that you are entitled to a new business rate?

Brendan Burgess said:
Existing owner occupier mortgages originated under Dilosk’s ICS Mortgages brand can avail of our new fixed and variable rates, subject to our lending guidelines.
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You originated under Dilosk and can avail? Is there a lending guideline you don't meet?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong?
 
pguyo said:
We had no say in our mortgage being sold to Dilosk and they have decided to discriminate against us.
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Hi pg

While this is true, I suspect that, even with the discrimination, your mortgage rate is lower with Dilosk that it would be today with Bank of Ireland.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Existing owner occupier mortgages originated under Dilosk’s ICS Mortgages brand can avail of our new fixed and variable rates, subject to our lending guidelines [emphasis added].
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Is the part in bold the part that ICS are using to deny @pguyo the new-business rates? I.e., do the "guidelines" refer to the rate review process that pguyo previously described?

a question and answer session on the phone while a customer service agent records your answers in relation to current income, expenditure, loans, savings, kids etc.
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(@Itchy may have been making the same point in his above post.)
 
I am not sure what the lending guidelines have to do with it other than Loan to Value? That is the only criterion used to decide rates.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I am not sure what the lending guidelines have to do with it other than Loan to Value? That is the only criterion used to decide rates.

Brendan
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Hi Brendan,

I don’t know the answer, but perhaps there are other criteria for, say, the 1.95% rate, even on an internal switch?

e.g. they apply the 3.5 times test or a percentage of disposable income test.

Gordon
 
Hi Gordon

The 3.5 times income test is used only to approve or reject a loan.
I would have no problem with a lender incorporating the LTI in setting their rates, but I don't think any of them do. (I have an idea that some lender does not offer all rates to people who get an LTI exemption, but I can't remember which one.)

Avant uses both LTV, and for the One Mortgage, the mortgage term. So a 15 year loan is cheaper than a 30 year loan with the same LTV. But I think that is the only non-LTV criterion used for setting rates.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Gordon

The 3.5 times income test is used only to approve or reject a loan.
I would have no problem with a lender incorporating the LTI in setting their rates, but I don't think any of them do. (I have an idea that some lender does not offer all rates to people who get an LTI exemption, but I can't remember which one.)

Avant uses both LTV, and for the One Mortgage, the mortgage term. So a 15 year loan is cheaper than a 30 year loan with the same LTV. But I think that is the only non-LTV criterion used for setting rates.

Brendan
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LTI and disposable income are not an issue.
Our circumstances have changed as in we have now sold the 2nd property so will try to talk to them again in a few weeks.
 
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