Does ICS discriminate between new and existing customers?

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pguyo

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I am concerned that existing loyal customers of ICS are not allowed to avail of the recent rate reductions announced.

There are no rates for existing customers on their website.

The Indo mentioned existing customers but it doesnt say anything about existing customers anywhere else
 
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Update 4th January. ICS appears to have changed its policies and now allows existing customers to avail of the same rates on offer to new customers.

Brendan

www.icsmortgages.ie

Existing Customer Rates | ICS Mortgages | Residential Mortgages

The ICS Brand was established in 1864 and has remained a leading and trusted brand in the mortgage market throughout its 150-year history.
www.icsmortgages.ie www.icsmortgages.ie

Existing Mortgage​

If you are an existing customer, you can opt to change to a new fixed or variable rate if you prefer. This will depend on the balance of your mortgage and the number of years left on it.
If the balance on your mortgage is at least €100,000 and you have 5 years or more remaining, you can avail of our new business variable or fixed rates. Please note that if you are currently on a fixed rate, you may be charged a break fee if you change rates before your fixed term has ended. For details as to how our fixed rate breakage fee is calculated click here.
If the balance on your mortgage is below €100,000 or you have less than 5 years remaining, you can avail of our new business variable rates. Again, please note that if you are currently on a fixed rate, you may be charged a break fee if you change rates before your fixed term has ended.
If you are also looking to change your LTV bracket, -a new valuation will be required for your property.

I had missed this at the time.

I am checking directly with ICS to get an official response on the issue.

I had just assumed that the new lenders like ICS and Avant would treat their loyal customers fairly and not engage in the tricks loved by Bank of Ireland and permanent tsb.

If ICS does discriminate and Avant don't, then it would mean taking ICS off the Best Buys list as, long-term, they would be much more expensive.

Brendan
 
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When you search their website (maybe its just me) but it seems very shady

At ICS Mortgages we have a suite of discounted variable rates for our existing Owner Occupier customers.
Click to expand...

No fixed rates?

My fixed rate is due to expire, what rates will I be offered?
Approximately 4 weeks (1 month) prior to your fixed rate expiring, we will write to you and explain the rate options available to you
Click to expand...
So they are not accessible on the website nor is their policy?

One thing is clear, its not clear what your rate options are when your fixed rate expires!
 
It was confirmed on phone the rates are new business only but as an existing customer you can apply for a rate review.
Its basically a a question and answer session on the phone while a customer service agaent records your answers in relation to current income, expenditure, loans, savings, kids etc. They then call you back with an offer after a week or so.
I applied was offered a variable rate at first 0.3% higher than available to new business(drop of .25% for us) and when I pushed for a fixed rate they came back 0.5% higher than new business rate drop of .5% for us)
We are in the process of a sale of 2nd property so was complicated to move at the time but will be switching once things settle down in New Year
 
Itchy said:
When you search their website (maybe its just me) but it seems very shady
Click to expand...
I've got confused by their website before. It looks like parts of their website haven't been updated since ICS re-entered the PDH market at the end of 2019. Prior to that 'existing' customers meant those that were part of the initial spin-off when BOI sold ICS.
 
pguyo said:
They then call you back with an offer after a week or so.
I applied was offered a variable rate at first 0.3% higher than available to new business(drop of .25% for us) and when I pushed for a fixed rate they came back 0.5% higher than new business rate drop of .5% for us)
Click to expand...

This sounds like the predatory lending practices of the Irish Nationwide.

When the Irish Nationwide customers realised that their rates had not been reduced while rates for new customers had been, they rang to complain. If they had a good credit record, the Irish Nationwide would reduce their rates.
If they had a bad credit record, and most customers had, the Irish Nationwide knew that they could not switch and so they told them to get their arrears cleared before they would talk to them.

I hope that ICS is not doing the same.

Brendan
 
We have applied for rate reductions over the years and got down from 3.95 to 2.95 but still well shy of new business rates. We have no issues in relation to credit just waiting for house sale to have a less complicated switching process. Obviously if they offered us new business rates we would stay. Might have another rattle off them before switching.
 
What on earth does this mean?

Rates​

At ICS Mortgages we have a suite of discounted variable rates for our existing Owner Occupier customers.
These rates are discounts on your current variable rate, based on Loan-to-Value (LTV) and other qualifying criteria.

www.icsmortgages.ie

Existing Customer Rates | ICS Mortgages | Residential Mortgages

The ICS Brand was established in 1864 and has remained a leading and trusted brand in the mortgage market throughout its 150-year history.
www.icsmortgages.ie www.icsmortgages.ie

Here is their quote for First Time Buyers

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I assume that the current roll-off rate for anyone whose fixed rate is ending is 2.45%?
 
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I have an offer letter from ICS in front of me , shows rate of 1.95% fixed for 5 years, followed by 2.45% rate after this
 
Hi Brian
That is interesting but it doesn't mean anything contractually.

They do not have a published variable rate for existing customers rolling off fixed rates.

So while they might offer a rate of 2.45% variable to new customers, when your fixed rate is up, they might offer you 8%. And if you are in arrears or restructured, there will be nothing you can do about it.

Brendan
 
Hi Brendan,
Fair enough, if that’s the case then better for everybody to keep a clean credit record for the period of the fixed rate term so as to hold the negotiating power and have the ability to switch again afterwards if ICS try to screw you over!
Probably same for many Lenders though - if you are a bad credit they squeeze more out of you , good credit they have less hassle with you but they get less money from you too.
Key message : keep clean credit record & retain ability to move and negotiate if a credit institution starts playing dirty
 
Key message : keep clean credit record & retain ability to move and negotiate if a credit institution starts playing dirty
Click to expand...

Hi Brian

The problem with that approach is that there are many factors which could impact your ability to move
  • Your credit record is the biggest one
  • A rise in interest rates would make some people who are on the brink of affordability no longer able to meet the criteria of other lenders
  • A change in personal circumstances e.g. increased expenditure or reduced income to due to children
  • A change in personal circumstances e.g. marriage or separation
  • A change in job e.g. you might be on probation and not able to move or you might be self-employed and require three years' accounts
  • Some general credit squeeze in the market where lenders stop lending
So the best approach is to take out a mortgage with a lender which treats customers fairly and in particular one which makes the rates on offer to new customers, available to existing customers.

Brendan
 
Do Avant treat borrowers fairly?

i.e. allow someone to re-fix at 1.95% after their fixed term has expired, assuming that the rate is still available?

I suspect that if we kick up enough of a fuss about it here and BB puts it to them, ICS will relent.
 
Brian McD said:
Probably same for many Lenders though - if you are a bad credit they squeeze more out of you , good credit they have less hassle with you but they get less money from you too.
Click to expand...

I don't think any other lender does this?

All other lenders publish their rates for existing customers. They don't pick a rate for existing customers based on their individual assessment. So if you are a BoI customer, you can see your LTV and see what rate you should be on.

With ICS, they will tell you your rate and you can't check to see if it's the "right" rate.

AIB, Ulster,KBC and Avant make the rates on offer to new customers, available to existing customers.

Brendan
 
Hi Brendan,
Agree with all you said above. This is my 4th mortgage switch in 6 years, just go to best lender at the end of each fixed rate term, tell existing lender what I’m offered, they say they can’t match - then I execute the switch, mostly it’s cost free , though not this time with ICS. Appreciate personal circumstances can change for people, but I’ll take my chances with this ICS lot for next 5 years, pick up the phone to discuss rates 6 months prior to 5 year maturity to see what they have to offer. If I don’t like it, it’s on to Bonkers.ie to figure out who’ll get my business next
 
Here's what they say under their repayment calculator, but strangely not in their rates page.

This is factored into their APR calculation.

"Fixed rate repayment is applicable for the fixed rate period only. After the fixed rate period, the prevailing new business LTV variable rates apply to the mortgage amount; this rate will be determined by the Loan to Value at initial drawdown."

I haven't seen an offer letter to review the wording.
 
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