try living in the UK. Income Tax, Council Tax (payable after income tax already taken), no mortgage relief. bin charges, car parking charges (outside yer own home no less in some places) water charges, bloody expensive commuting costs via public transport, etc etc... the cost of goods and services may be cheaper there, but you'll have less in your pocket to spend
I disagree. When people get something for nothing (or nothing at the point of care) they are far more likely to abuse it.
Income tax is less than in Ireland.
Mortgage relief is on its way out here.
Bin tax is part of council tax. So are all the leisure centres, libraries, waste disposal centres and parks that are lacking here.
Parking enforcement in Dublin is every bit as draconian as it is in London.
Commuting is less expensive and more reliable in London than in Dublin.
I have friends in London who I visit regularly and I know all of this to be fact.
I disagree. When people get something for nothing (or nothing at the point of care) they are far more likely to abuse it. Mrs Purple has been called to houses in the middle of the night because parents have run out of Calpol for their child. In her experience medical card patients account for over 70% of out of hours house calls yet less than one third of people are medical card holders. The same goes for A&E; people go there with a ailment that has been ongoing for weeks. Anyone presenting with such a complaint should be sent to their GP and told to make an outpatient appointment. Don’t get me going about people who present to E&E drunk or drugged; they cost the state tens if not hundreds of millions a year as they clog up the whole hospital system. The state should recover all costs from these people, even if it leaves them penniless.
Anyway, socialised medicine is very inefficient. Why create a bureaucracy to take taxes from people and then give the small proportion that is not squandered said bureaucracy back to them in the form of a socialised service delivery. At the end of the day the cost to the hospital/doctor is the same, why not cut out the bloated middleman and let people pay for it themselves through their insurance (or through insurance provided by the state)?
The argument about who can afford it themselves is no different to the one about who should pay what tax. If we were not paying for 5% of the workforce to be employed by the HSE then taxes should be lower.
You forgot that you can drop into your doctor in Ireland. I have relatives in London who in their local area have to make an appointment a week+ in advance!
It's not a mindset, it's the reality on the ground. The same it true for anything you don't have to pay for/earn.There is a mindset in Ireland stating that if you give people free healthcare they will abuse it.
At what stage in the last 10'000 years was healthcare not a business? The problem is that it is not enough business competition, not that there is too much. Basic human rights are freedom and equality under the law and the right to retain a just proportion of the fruits of your labour. If you choose to sit on your ass while your neighbour works then there is no way in hell that he should have to foot the bill for your healthcare.This is because what should be a basic human right has been turned in to a business.
The production of air does not require human labour so the comparison is spurious. Drinking water would be a better analogy; if we had to pay for it more of us would turn off the tap when we brush our teeth and we would be more likely to collect rainwater to water our gardens.I'd say if the breathing of fresh air had been regulated and charged for and that charge was subsequently abolished, you'd most likely find people trying to breathe more than their fair share!
What harms people most is working their asses off while their neighbour on welfare enjoys the same standard of living because those who work pay so much tax.Our current situation is uncivilised and really harms those people on the cusp of qualifying for a medical card.
Go to a doctor that charges less or ask why you are being charged so much when you only saw the nurse. The problem in this case in lack of backbone, not lack of socilaised medicine.My wife recently cut her finger but not too badly. I patched up in the evening and she went to the GP the next day.
At the GP, she was seen by a nurse who cleaned it and rebandaged it. The doctor poked his head round the door and asked "everything OK here?" to which the nurse replied affirmatively and the doctor headed off again.
That cost €60.
It is no wonder the doctors don't have queues when they are pulling in such money for doing so little. I wouldn't turn anyone away if I was pulling in what they are.
No, it's because a vast state bureaucracy it trying to run what should be an open market of small businesses.Possibly the delay in appointments in London are due to the doctor taking time with each patient.
really?Income tax is less than in Ireland.
but not yet gone and still a long way to go...Mortgage relief is on its way out here.
they're looking to bring in bin charges... my mistake on that one.. as for the rest, we do have then here you know.. been to my local library frequently... it's a fact *g*Bin tax is part of council tax. So are all the leisure centres, libraries, waste disposal centres and parks that are lacking here.
not enforcement, charges... my local council in london wanted money from me so I could park outside my own house for example.Parking enforcement in Dublin is every bit as draconian as it is in London.
having lived in both cities, I don't agree..Commuting is less expensive and more reliable in London than in Dublin.
having lived in both cities I disagree...I have friends in London who I visit regularly and I know all of this to be fact.
really?
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/c...x/income-tax/how_your_tax_is_calculated#rules
but not yet gone and still a long way to go...
they're looking to bring in bin charges... my mistake on that one.. as for the rest, we do have then here you know.. been to my local library frequently... it's a fact *g*
not enforcement, charges... my local council in london wanted money from me so I could park outside my own house for example.
having lived in both cities, I don't agree..
having lived in both cities I disagree...
I moved back to Ireland as it offered a better standard of living and more money in my pocket.
do the figures...The income tax links you provided seem to support what I have said and don't take income levy into account.
2 zones is hardly a fair comparison to travelling from lusk to presumably the city centre.Do you know how much it costs to get a weekly ticket from Donabate to Sandyford combining train and Luas? About €36. Which allows you to travel from Rush & Lusk as far as Blackrock and three zones on the Luas. About 25 miles in total. How much is a weekly travelcard in London for two zones and how many miles on tube, overland and bus does that let you travel.
your political views are irrelevant. It still exists and is a benefit to anyone with a mortgage, regardless of social class.Mortgage relief has been severely diminished in Ireland, you can't deny it. In any case, it was described as a "middle class perk" by Gordon Brown when he abolished it in the UK and I tend to agree with him.
Rubbish - so we pay for doctors and A&E - so what... by that logic the USA is a tinpot republic also... and to say taxation in london is better than here is plain wrong. try applying uk tax rates (and include community tax) to your irish pay packet and see where you getTaxation in London is comparable, if not better, to Ireland in most regards and yet they don't have to pay €60 to go to the doctor, €80 to go to A&E and pay through the nose to get a fire engine or ambulance in a real emergency.
Tinpot banana republic.
do the figures...
2 zones is hardly a fair comparison to travelling from lusk to presumably the city centre.
this links provides a better idea of the costs
http://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard.htm
your political views are irrelevant. It still exists and is a benefit to anyone with a mortgage, regardless of social class.
Rubbish - so we pay for doctors and A&E - so what... by that logic the USA is a tinpot republic also... and to say taxation in london is better than here is plain wrong. try applying uk tax rates (and include community tax) to your irish pay packet and see where you get
Eh??? Where does it say we are socialist in the Constitution?The Republic of Ireland was recently founded on the supposed basis of a socialist republic of equals.
Yes we can; everyone can avail of our heath care system, if you can’t pay it’s free.and cannot even hope to fall back on the state should we become ill.
What a load of rubbish. Holland, Germany etc have national insurance schemes. A free at the point of use system is wasteful and so those that really need help are less likely to get it.But we should all have the right to a free healthcare system which is free at the point of use or we are nothing more than a nation of savages who would gladly step on the head of our neighbour to clamber out of deep water.
dear divine jaysus, give over with the leftie retoric. We're no more socialist than the pope's a hippy and thank god for that.The Republic of Ireland was recently founded on the supposed basis of a socialist republic of equals. And two wrongs do not make a right. Take a simple google search and see how Irish healthcare compares to the rest of Europe. And nobody is holding up the USA model as a utopian system.
baloney. it's a benefit to me, and it's a benefit to many others. its money directly in my pocket every month.Mortgage relief is no longer a benefit to anyone with a mortgage in Ireland.
what about it, we're not talking about VATWhat about the rate of VAT in Ireland compared to what you pay in the UK?
much as i'd like it reduced, it's hard to argue against taxing unhealthy vices like fags and booze.Duty on alcohol? Less in the UK.
agreedStamp duty on housing? Less in the UK.
small changeStamp duty on credit and debit cards? NONE in the UK.
ever driven up the m6 motorway?What about the tolling of standard infrastructure in Ireland which does not exist in the UK?
what about it- unfair I agree...What about VRT which does not exist in the UK?
actually, we canListen, we are being ridden every which way by people feathering their own nests and cannot even hope to fall back on the state should we become ill.
re tax
try this
http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Default.aspx
http://listentotaxman.com/
put in 30 grand sterling and say 33000 irish and see the results
and then factor in a good 100 a month in the compulsory council tax
re tax
try this
http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Default.aspx
http://listentotaxman.com/
put in 30 grand sterling and say 33000 irish and see the results
and then factor in a good 100 a month in the compulsory council tax
no, the issue I disagreed with was that people in the uk are so much better off than us. I disagree. On an average salary it's clear from the calculators that somebody in Ireland has more disposable income than somebody in the UK, and thats without even factoring in community tax. Yes, we pay more for goods and services, but at least we have the cash in our pocket to do so, and indeed, a choice as to whether we do so or not.Smoke and mirrors on your part.
You keep adding arbitrary elements to this thread and when they are challenged you keep shifting point.
The issue is that people in the UK are taxed less and have better public services.
as to ignoring health concerns, I think the real issue is the strain on A&E from people using it in lieu of a visit to the doctor.And we have the second worst healthcare system in Europe (source http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0626/health1.html)
And to top it off, it is not free at point of usage which leads people just above the medical card to ignore health concerns as they have better things to spend €60 on and do not have the confidence to go into a doctor's surgery and haggle with him.