Do we need a new political party to represent responsible people?

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Leo

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I was talking to them they are earning a lot less money in Germany than Ireland, the regret coming to Ireland for one reason once the lost there job the drop in income was massive compared to Germany,

Hmm. so the only conclusion I can draw here is it's better to work for less money on the off chance that you lose your job. If you do, the drop to social welfare won't be as big a shock to the system.
 

Brendan Burgess

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Hi Wolfie

It seems to me to be the exact opposite of what I am proposing.

From the Guardian

Javid had been pushing for tighter fiscal rules, while No 10 wanted fewer constraints on spending.


Brendan
 

WolfeTone

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Exactly, a Finance Minister sets out a series of fiscally responsible measures (in line with your sentiment) and along comes a PM that appears to be wanting to tear up those rules and go on a bit of a public spending bender.

Newsnight presenter on BBC2 last night wondered if Johnson had found all the "magic money trees".
 

Brendan Burgess

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OK Wolfie

I had misunderstood you.

I would hope that a new political party committed to acting responsibly would have all its representatives acting responsibly.

The Conservative Party has become populist in just the same way as FG has.

Brendan
 

josh8267

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OK Wolfie

I had misunderstood you.

I would hope that a new political party committed to acting responsibly would have all its representatives acting responsibly.

The Conservative Party has become populist in just the same way as FG has.

Brendan
The Right wing in the UK can always be reckless with taxpayers money because when things go wrong it will not affect them,

The problem In Ireland is FG/FF/ populist policies will have to be paid long term by there own supporters in other words people who never vote left wing,

The problem I see following your take on responsibly and I may be picking you up wrong is your interested in fairness in the system is not showing through for some reason,
Hope you don't mind me bringing it up ,
 
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josh8267

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FF and FG are left of centre parties.
All over the EU left of centre parties have fairness in the system for the people who once the enter the workforce until the retire can expect to be looked after out of there social security contributions , FF/FG/LAB stopped looking after them back in the mid 1980s but still took the same amount employers/employees contributions as lets say Germany ,But give nothing back in return ,
 

Brendan Burgess

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I may be picking you up wrong is your interested in fairness in the system is not showing through for some reason,

Hi josh

Interesting observation.

Not sure why.

I think we have been beaten into thinking that "fairness" means having very generous housing, welfare and benefits for people who are not working while requiring those who work to pay high prices for their housing and require them to commute three hours a day.

The problem is that if you challenge the vested interests in this country, you get demonised.

But that is why we need a new party to stand up for fairness for everyone and not just for people on welfare.

Brendan
 

josh8267

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Hi josh

Interesting observation.

Not sure why.

I think we have been beaten into thinking that "fairness" means having very generous housing, welfare and benefits for people who are not working while requiring those who work to pay high prices for their housing and require them to commute three hours a day.

The problem is that if you challenge the vested interests in this country, you get demonised.

But that is why we need a new party to stand up for fairness for everyone and not just for people on welfare.

Brendan
The foundations of fairness has to be built into the Social security system if you address this everything else fall into place,
I am retired now I am actually travelling around Germany at present ,
I get asked about The Irish General election all the time , My friend was showing an German Employer today how much prsi he and his employer paid in 2010 he lost his job and home and moved to Germany for work ,German Employer cant understand how so called responsible people could allow such a system to exist in Ireland,
Have you an Idea how to explain why this is allowed to go on and how you would address it,
Have you Googled (Leos PRSI Plan) in your opinion who stopped him from taking it further, do you agree if he started to address it he would have halted the movement to the left ,FG would now be back in Government on there own if he followed through when he became leader,
 
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ATC110

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3. You want to convert all public sector and politicians' pension to generous defined contribution schemes. What amount do you suggest each pays?

Whatever amount they can afford to pay like anyone else contributing to a DC scheme
 

joe sod

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work ,German Employer cant understand how so called responsible people could allow such a system to exist in Ireland,
Have you an Idea how to explain why this is allowed to go on and how you would address it,

The Germans can't really point the finger at our welfare system, the refugee influx that Germany allowed in since 2015, as of 2019 is still costing the German taxpayer 20 billion euros. Whatever about the moral issue of allowing in so many refugees, the cost is borne by Germany's social security system that was supposed to be there to pay for the German workers pensions and social security, it looks like these refugees are going to be a burden on the German state for many years.
 

WolfeTone

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it looks like these refugees are going to be a burden on the German state for many years.

Depends on how the are managed. If they are kept in direct provision centres, little to no income, denied permission to work, stigmatized as being a 'burden', then it is a big problem.
If they are allowed access to housing, education, healthcare, earning an income, they can contribute positively to the economy now for subsequent generations.
 

Delboy

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Depends on how the are managed. If they are kept in direct provision centres, little to no income, denied permission to work, stigmatized as being a 'burden', then it is a big problem.
If they are allowed access to housing, education, healthcare, earning an income, they can contribute positively to the economy now for subsequent generations.
They aren't kept in DP centres and they haven#t been denied permission to work.. They simply don't have the qualifications or education to to contribute positively to the economy from what I've seen and read.
 

WolfeTone

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They simply don't have the qualifications or education

If they are allowed access to housing, education

Rome wasn't built in a day. You are talking about a people displaced in the most horrific of circumstances.
Irish history tells a not too dissimilar story in the US and Britain.
Once derided, abused, dismissed as uneducated and unqualified, not now.
 

Purple

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Rome wasn't built in a day. You are talking about a people displaced in the most horrific of circumstances.
Irish history tells a not too dissimilar story in the US and Britain.
Once derided, abused, dismissed as uneducated and unqualified, not now.
And look at the problems we caused; political corruption, organised crime, paedophile priests, ghettos and the short, red faced ugly gene.
Immigrants coming here at least improve the genepool and have a good work ethic but we should rightly fear the possibility that they are just like us. That's the last thing we need.
 

josh8267

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They aren't kept in DP centres and they haven#t been denied permission to work.. They simply don't have the qualifications or education to to contribute positively to the economy from what I've seen and read.
Where did you get the above from, at this stage almost all ore working in Germany,

From what I can see The Germany employment system has resulted in there positive contribution to the German Economy. almost all are in employment at this stage and in house Qualification is to do the required work is working very well,

The less Educated prepared to learn and work Built many a Economy away better than what we have at present in Ireland,
 
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josh8267

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Really? Almost all?
Have you got a link to any reputable data source or report that backs this up?
I don't really need a source . I spend a few month in Germany/Austria each year , in fact our walking Club is just back from a walking tour around Germany and other EU City's we fly to an airport in Europe having already bought Flexbus covering 6 City's ,Out Club have being this Tour for at least 10 years actually away more than 10 years
we have being going there Before Germany sent out A message Welcoming Refugees, we were there at the height of the influx of refugees, we seen how it was handled by the Germans,

They located the Refugees within walking distance or close to public transport services to work shortage areas, and it worked,

There social payment system allowed around 150 euro a month for food ans personal Items, Balance had to go on housing costs,
If the find low income jobs or training they hold there housing payment for so long,

Now I will jump across that rabbit hole, Google ,Germany Welcomes Refugees now it's reaping the benefits and have a read, Don't miss the part where 70% of Females Refugees had children under 3 years when they arrived,
 
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RedOnion

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I don't really need a source . I spend a few month in Germany/Austria each year
You're making it up as you go along! You're a complete spoofer. You met a refugee that had a job, so they must all have jobs?

Even the article you suggested I read contradicts your own claim the "almost all" refugees are in employment. Maybe you should read it yourself and realise how ridiculous a statement like that is! I had read that article previously, so not surprised you referred to it.

Yes, there's a high employment rate, and the authorities are surprised at how high it it, but it's nowhere close to the levels that anyone could say 'almost all'.

For the record, I don't agree with the original post that you had commented on, but making stuff up isn't the way to move a conversation forward.
 
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