Dispute over encashment value of fund

Discussion in 'Investments' started by DCD, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. DCD

    DCD Frequent Poster

    Hi folks invested 200k with one of the assurance companies back in 2007 (dont know if I am permitted to name them on AAM)
    Finally broken even and have learnt the hard way to go the direct route and avoid so called managed funds.
    Checked the value of my fund the close of business day before/actual day/and day after I emailed my instruction for full encashment. Each day showed a value very slightly in excess of my original investment.
    Encashment through at 199333 today. I phoned regarding the value with no joy. So emailed complaint.
    Has any other person experienced a similar event.
  2. aristotle

    aristotle Frequent Poster

    Maybe some fees were deducted for carrying out the encashment?
  3. PMU

    PMU Frequent Poster

    Did you check if the price was the 'bid' or the 'ask' price? The 'bid', i.e. the price at which the insurance company is willing to sell the units, is lower than the 'ask' price, i.e. the price which you pay when buying the units.
  4. DCD

    DCD Frequent Poster

    No fees bar early encashment in first 5yrs.
    No bid/ask price. Basically the encashment price given is after the notification I gave when equities wobbled. No tax also because of no gain.
  5. major

    major Registered User

    That's a waste of 11 yrs only getting very much what you invested first day
  6. DCD

    DCD Frequent Poster

    Sure is Major. Thats why advise offered by Mr Burgess and others on AAM needs to be taken on board. Buy well diversified portfolio of shares directly.
    1. You will most likely do better
    2. Charges are cheaper and transparant
    3. Tax reasons.
    4.Buying and selling easier and immediate.

    If you were to take a look at the fund presentation by the assurance company I was invested in over the past number of years you would say happy days. I would say stay well away. The only reason I have stuck with it over the last few years was that any gains were not taxable due to the fact of its lousy performance.
    When I factor in inflation it makes me sick.
  7. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

    Actually if you factor in the inflation you mightn't have done too bad. Still, after all the years left aside one expects a bit of cash to play with.
  8. DCD

    DCD Frequent Poster

    Apart from property noproblem everything else has surely risen in price by a huge amount since 2007:eek:
  9. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

    It would be interesting to know by what percentage inflation has risen? Remember too that a lot of people have lost considerably on investments by trawling around for better returns, so maybe you're not as bad as you could have been. At least you have lost very little.
  10. DCD

    DCD Frequent Poster

    Update-- Spoke to supervisor in New Ireland last evening and she agreed after checking with the encashment value I claimed at close of business the day they received my instruction. She then went onto say that encashment value actually runs into the following day.
    I pointed out that this was not correct and the encashment value is clearly stated in writing as the value of the fund at close on the day of instruction
    I also said this was confirmed to me by a member of staff in a phone call the day before I submitted paperwork for encashment.
    She said that she will listen to the recorded phone call to confirm what was said to me. If it was the case that an agent "gave me the wrong information" they would have to take a look at how they can rectify such problems.
    I informed the lady that should I not receive what I understand to be the full and proper encashment of my policy I would be requesting all paperwork/recordings etc in relation to this matter and pursuing it further. The amount involved is approximately 800 euro.
    She will get back to me next week. In fairness the lady was polite and helpful.Will update next week.
  11. Dardania

    Dardania Registered User

    And that's the fees taken care of so!
  12. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    That depends on when in 2007 the funds were invested and where they were invested. A managed fund with a reasonable concentration of Irish & UK bank shares would have suffered catastrophic losses in 2007/08.
  13. seamless

    seamless Registered User

    It was exactly my experiences with this crowd that pushed me down the self investment route for my pension. I sought strategic and independence advice and so far so good.
  14. SBarrett

    SBarrett Frequent Poster

    Get it all the time Tommy. 'This insurance company is rubbish or my pension is rubbish, I'm not getting any returns when the market is doing great.' I then look at their investment and they've a huge concentration of bonds!!

    When you send in a switch or encashment instruction, it gets the price of the next day. It's always been that way. It's to prevent people playing the market and clogging up the whole system with switch/ encashment orders.

    T McGibney likes this.
  15. DCD

    DCD Frequent Poster

    "Please note that the value on the online portal represents the previous days close of markets, therefore the value today on the online portal will not represent the actual value you will receive if the request is received today."

    "The value of an encashment received today will not be known until tomorrow, apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused."

    Above is what I received from New Ireland in writing. Hope this clarifies things. I logged onto the portal the day after forwarding my request. I also spoke to an agent and the agent clearly stated same that the actual encashement value would only show on the portal the day after my request as stated above.

    I am still short around 800 euro.
  16. Jim2007

    Jim2007 Frequent Poster

    You need to check your contract to see how the encasement value is calculated, in particular what prices are actually used. You need to find out how the prices you were looking at were calculated and in particular the time issue. In most places I have worked we calculated the advertised price as 4:00 pm London on the previous day, for example.
  17. DCD

    DCD Frequent Poster

    Thanks to all. No dispute on how value is calculated. It comes down to timing. Both in writing and verbally it was communicated to me that the encashment is calculated at the closing of markets on the day instructions are physically received.
    I have this in writing and New Ireland have stated that they will also listen to recorded phone call regarding same. I have no worry that the recorded phone call will only confirm what I have in writing. Will keep all informed. Thanks.
  18. cremeegg

    cremeegg Frequent Poster

    Maybe their financial advisor didn't explain what they were investing in.:(
  19. LDFerguson

    LDFerguson Frequent Poster

    I'm curious myself now. Looking at one of New Ireland's staple managed funds, the Evergreen fund and its performance over the past 11 years to date, it's up a total of 45.6% at the start of this week and that's after the recent dip this year. For comparison, the MSCI World Index is up 49% over the same period. Charges will eat into this return. But not to the extent that you would only be breaking even after 11 years.

    DPD - can I ask you - What fund were you invested in? Did you switch funds during the 11 years or did you stay in the original choice? What were the charges on the product?
  20. DCD

    DCD Frequent Poster

    LD here you go.

    Roughly 200k invested 28/9/2007. Initally 25% Innovator, 25% trilogy, 50% evergreen. remained in these funds for probably five years

    Following years 4 switches @25 euro per switch= 100 euro in total. Funds put into European Equity UK Equity Indexed and North American Equity over the time period.

    Charges. 2007-2008 1655 euro
    2008-2009 1042 euro
    2009-2010 1185 euro
    2011-2012 1262 euro
    2012-2013 1220 euro
    2013-2014 1251 euro
    2014-2015 1366 euro
    2015-2016 1271 euro
    2016-2017 1444 euro
    2017 to 2018 628 euro Total 13595 euro