The only problem with that is the the law does not care what you think... the law and common sense are two very different things.
Disciplinary process over employees slagging colleagues on private WhatsApp group
- Thread starter Ladyjuicy08
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The only problem with that is the the law does not care what you think... the law and common sense are two very different things.
That's all well and good but as an employer to have a duty of care. That means that as an employer you have to deal with this or leave yourself open to being taken to court so, no matter how silly and childish you think this is (and I agree that it is), you have to held your nose and deal with it.
We live in a world where the prefix "Well I just feel" is enough to validate an opinion, where faux pas are now called "Micro-aggressions" and where offense can be taken at a comment no matter the context in which that comment was made.
Blackrock1
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That doesn't apply here as the messages were voluntarily submitted to the employer in support of a complaint.
Early Riser
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The problem with "common sense" is that everyone has their own version of it - it is not really common at all. "Common sense" might be more accurately described as unexamined personal prejudice. It was once "common sense" that women should not be entitled to vote - thinking about such complex things would overtax their delicate constitutions. It was common sense that ordinary people (the rabble) should not be allowed to vote as they were too stupid.
Any employer who thinks they can simply ignore such behaviour, or deal with it by treating them as children does not understand their liabilities under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act and the consequences, financial and otherwise that failing to take claims seriously can have. Personal style or opinions simply don't come into it. There are plenty of cases that have made their way through the Employee Appeals Tribunal and the courts system. Half the employers brought before the EAT don't even have procedures in place to deal with such bullying, this generally doesn't go well for them!
Also, take a look through the Harassment, Harmful Communications and Related Offences Bill to see what's coming to a courtroom near you soon.
That's the thing with a Common Law based system, it evolves.
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Blackrock1
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God, this makes me despair for the world my children are going to grow up into. Grown up people thinking it is funny to share a meme on social media about a fellow employee. Grown up people coming back with the argument 'he said this first, she said this first'....You were completely in the wrong for what you did. Even if you weren't caught. If I found out that my children were sending messages about other children in their class to other pupils, they wouldn't see the internet or phone again for a very long time. You are grown adults. Instead of trying to worm yourself out of it by using the other guys behaviour as an excuse, you should all accept responsibility for your actions and just apologise. It doesn't matter if it was just one meme or 100 memes. It doesn't matter if he is a sexist twat or not.
Early Riser
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Yeah, the early stages did when we were governed under UK law, but I meant a more general what might be considered right and appropriate evolves over time and our system adapts to follow.
Also, I think you may have slightly misquoted me.
Oops....
Early Riser
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Although, to be fair, people have always talked about, joked about, gave out about,etc., others in their social network or work group behind their backs. Its why I always go to social occasions in my own network when I can - so as not to be the subject of the conversation! More seriously, though, social media has transformed the norms - and dangers - around this.
Yeah I know. But as you say, the internet and social media have completely changed the rules on this and it amazes me that adults struggle to understand this in a work environment. A colleague of mine got in trouble because he had his job title and where he worked on his personal twitter handle ( Don't ask me why). He had a little disclaimer stating that the views expressed were his own personal views and not those of the company. He then made some stupid sexist insensitive comment about a rape case and of course people re-tweeted and included the company. His defence was 'But I put a disclaimer on it'.......
Ladyjuicy08
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It wasn't shared on social media its not like it was put up on Facebook/ Twitter for the world to see it was in what was meant to be a private message please don't tell me u have never complained or called anybody in ur whole life something behind their back when u been annoyed at them As I've stated before from it was 1 thing that I personally couldn't even remember until reminded Its not a on going thing where it's been done everyday This group as stated was NOT set up to make fun of this person
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The difference with this case here is that it was not social media where people can opt to see what you are saying. It was a private group messaging each other just like a conversation in a pub. If they knew someone was listening they would not have said anything.
Sophrosyne
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You understand that we can only provide general advice in the absence of information from both sides.
I’m sure that by now you understand that firstly, the fact that the WhatsApp group was, as you thought, private and that messages were to be shared only with group members and that the messages were sent outside working hours are not a defence as far as your employer’s legal responsibilities are concerned.
Secondly, personal opinions as to what should be considered as normal office banter and reliance on what was acceptable in the past is irrelevant.
Thirdly, the complainant’s behaviour, prior to lodging the complaint, is also irrelevant as it wasn’t reported at the time. Even if it was, it bears little relation to his current complaint.
Your employer has a legal duty to investigate all reported incidences of bullying and harassment and take appropriate action under the firm’s Code of Practice.
What is in your favour and we’ll have to take your word on this, is that the behaviour complained of was not persistent and your employer will take this into account.
However, as I mentioned, we don’t have both sides of the story or the full details of the complaint.
Ladyjuicy08
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Also the person who screenshot it is not the one who gave it to the employer The employer is claiming not to know who took the screenshot so it was given to employer by the person who wasn't in the group
RETIRED2017
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Which means it was shared and in the possession of people outside your group,
It doesn’t mean it can be used though, for disciplining.