Developer using sub-standard windows

[EC1]

Anyone know of a case in this country where legal action was taken against a developer who used substandard windows in a housing estate (maybe under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act ... merchantable quality, fit for use intended etc)?

Basically, these PVC windows in hundreds of homes are sealed from the outside, so burglars are cutting the seal and removing the pane of glass.

Which means your average PhoneWatch system is rendered useless (no motion detectors).

 

[ClubMan]

Are you sure that these are "substandard"? Do they have any NSAI markings on them for example?

 

[EC1]

That's why I'm wondering if there has been a case challenging the use of certain windows — to prove that they are substandard. There are no markings on them.

Who the hell seals a pane of glass in from the outside — a stanley knife will have it out in three seconds flat.

 

[OhPinchy]

has anyone ever heard of an actual theft that used this method?

If you have motion detectors on your windows (which you should at least downstairs) then it would want to be a fairly delicate burgular who gets the glass out without setting that off. if its an upstairs window then fair play to the burgular who can lift out a full window pane up there, though a few more motion detectors wouldnt cost much.

Doesn't detract from the fact that if they contravene regulations, builders should not be using them though.

 

[shoegal]

Hi EC1, this isn't much comfort but I suppose it depends on what you think a window’s primary function is. Initially I would have thought a window’s primary function is to allow light in and keep rain and wind out, and I guess if it does this job then it can’t really be called substandard. It’s very unfortunate about the seal and burglars; I’m building a new house myself at the moment and have been warned about getting windows with the seal on the outside because of this very issue. I’m open to correction but from what I hear windows can be constructed in both ways (seals on the inside or the outside). So, unless they are structurally unacceptable in terms of building regs, it might be difficult to prove they are “substandard” because of a robbery.

 

[ClubMan]

Do the http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/DOEIPol.nsf/wvNavView/wwdConstruction?OpenDocument&Lang=en (DoE building regulations) specify anything in terms of window standards that must be adhered to?

 

[EC1]

has anyone ever heard of an actual theft that used this method?

Try the fifty odd residents (out of 100) at a public meeting in Galway last night. Thankfully, I'm not one of them (yet??).

If you have motion detectors on your windows (which you should at least downstairs) then it would want to be a fairly delicate burgular who gets the glass out without setting that off.

No, if the windows are opened, the alarm will go off. If you remove the glass, they won't. Which renders PhoneWatch utterly useless. Thankfully, at least I have motion detectors.


Shoegal — I agree about a window's main function, but I would imagine there's a legal challenge waiting to happen. If you had the money to go to the High Court. I think perhaps the Small Claims Court (on one window alone) may be the route to test the water.

 

[Carpenter]

If the windows are manufactured by one of the main window companies in this country or using a proprietary frame profile then the windows will most likely have been independantly tested and have Irish Agrement Board Certification, this can be checked online at [broken link removed]

Double glazed units can be removed from the outside be this is not as easy as implied and would be difficult in the case of larger panes, which are heavy and would probably require two people to manouvre them without breakage (using the suction pads employed by glaziers). I'm not familiar with the phonewatch sensors but most window sensors are inertia and shock sensors, they respond to certain levels of shock. The sensitivity of the sensor can usually be adjusted and set according to risk. Removing glass would most certainly trigger an alarm. In the domestic situation windows are always glazed from the outside in, just like the old timber and putty windows of the past. It is considered good practice to glaze windows in a commercial setting from the inside to deter criminals from attempting removal of the glazing. If you check the agrement certificate you can verify what criteria exists for resistance to removal of glazing. However I'm inclined to believe that if a standard window sensor could not detect glass removal then the alarm is a waste of money and this is where the fault lies.

 

[MM3]

Burglars attempted to break in to our house using this method, in the guards opinion they were trying to get the keys of my car. Anyhow - the alarm (phonewatch) went off while they were removing the exterior seal - bit of a shock to the system as we were in the house at the time.

So it does happen...

M

 

[MandaC]

On the last Crimecall on RTE, the Gardai actually mentioned this method of burglars entering homes and advised people when replacing their windows to ensure they are not manufactured this way.

 

[Carpenter]

I'd safely say that 60% plus of the houses built in the last 10 years are fitted with windows of this type.