David Quinn on housing on Pat Kenny on Newstalk

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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David Quinn and Peter McVerry were on Pat Kenny this morning. It was great to hear someone else raising their head above the parapet on housing issues.

David Quinn said:

Some people are playing the system. They are living with their mother, but they make themselves homeless so that they get priority on the housing list.

3,000 social housing offers have been turned down in the last two years. 20% of Dublin City Council offers have been turned down. The refusal rate in Cork is 40%. People are holding out for the perfect house. Cork City Council estimated that only 10% of refusals were justified.

They turned down offers because they were too small or not close enough to family. Those who rent or buy their own homes, can't make these choices.

Peter McVerry responded
1) There is gaming of every system, but that does not mean that everyone is gaming the system
2) Refusals have reduced since the new system was introduced where the Council lists available places online and people can choose them
3) It doesn't matter if people refuse an offer - the house will go to someone else.

Brendan
 
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Pat Kenny read out a few messages. One was critical of Quinn on some vague grounds of it being heartless. The others were in full support. One woman had relocated 5 times for work, yet those on social housing expect to be housed wherever they want.

Brendan
 
Cork CC listed some reasons a couple of years as to why so many houses were being turned down in their area. One of the best I recall was that the back garden wasn't big enough for a kids trampoline.

I have no doubt that many people now see an opportunity and are being actively encouraged by family/the homeless industry to declare themselves homeless. They may currently be living in less than ideal conditions i.e. using the spare room in their parents house and the current housing frenzy has given them an opportunity to jump the housing list.
How many are doing this, we'll never know. But this being Ireland and with the attitude of a hard core in the state to getting everything for free, I'm sure this current crisis is being gamed to some degree.
 
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Brendan Burgess said:
Pat Kenny read out a few messages. One was critical of Quinn on some vague grounds of it being heartless. The others were in full support. One woman had relocated 5 times for work, yet those on social housing expect to be housed wherever they want.

Brendan
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You haven't told us what Quinn said, so it's impossible to know whether my sympathies lie with him or with his critics...
 
Just listening back to that report and picked out 1 interesting stat.
28% of the 90k+ on the housing waiting list are non-nationals. 20% of them are EU citizens and 8% are from outside the EU.

I recall a Dail question from a few years ago about the housing waiting list in Fingal Co Co. The response was that nearly 50% of the waiting list there was made up of non-nationals.
 
Delboy said:
Just listening back to that report and picked out 1 interesting stat.
28% of the 90k+ on the housing waiting list are non-nationals. 20% of them are EU citizens and 8% are from outside the EU.

I recall a Dail question from a few years ago about the housing waiting list in Fingal Co Co. The response was that nearly 50% of the waiting list there was made up of non-nationals.
Click to expand...

i wonder how many Irish nationals occupy social housing in the UK and other countries?
 
JohnJay said:
i wonder how many Irish nationals occupy social housing in the UK and other countries?
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Irish are not counted as non-nationals in the UK. They automatically enjoy precisely the same rights and responsibilities as English, Welsh and Scottish people.
 
Delboy said:
Off you go and research it.
You can start a new thread on it as well as this one relates to the social housing crisis in Ireland
Click to expand...

To be fair to JohnJay, I do think it's relevant to this thread.

When someone says: "We don't want all those foreigners coming in here taking our jobs, our housing and our women", it's reasonable to ask to what extent is it balanced out by Irish people going to other countries and taking their jobs, housing and women.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
To be fair to JohnJay, I do think it's relevant to this thread.

When someone says: "We don't want all those foreigners coming in here taking our jobs, our housing and our women", it's reasonable to ask to what extent is it balanced out by Irish people going to other countries and taking their jobs, housing and women.

Brendan
Click to expand...
Personally I don't, as this thread relates to Ireland and social housing here. Referring to Irish abroad in social housing is whataboutery.
But I don't want to go off topic. I just thought that was an interesting stat as we rarely see much analysis of the 90k that make up the housing list. Unfortunately, the merest mention of migration (except in a positive light) is too much of a sacred cow for many and a shutdown is quickly attempted.
 
An analysis of the 90k on the housing list would indeed make very interesting reading.

So far as I know many, if not most, of the people on the list are people who put their names down when they turn 18, then are happy to wait 10 years or what ever until they get to the top of the list and receive a house. Council houses are available to anybody for the asking if you can wait long enough.

A single person with a NET income of €35,000 is eligible in the cities.

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/def...ing/Housing/table_with_2016_income_limits.pdf
 
Delboy said:
Just listening back to that report and picked out 1 interesting stat.
28% of the 90k+ on the housing waiting list are non-nationals. 20% of them are EU citizens and 8% are from outside the EU.
Click to expand...

And I wonder how many EU citizens are employed in minimum wage jobs in Ireland ? Visit a hotel and who are you likely to find cleaning your room, cleaning the toilets, etc? And I'm sure if you went back of house you'd find the same situation there. What about other industries - how many minimum wage europeans are involved in the supply chain of cheap chickens to the supermarkets ? What about market gardening? I don't know where you live but several companies are involved in bin collection around here - I'd say all (or next to all) the guys on the lorries are foreign nationals.How about contract cleaners?

Feel free to add to this list.

I'm sure an analysis of the background of employees in our minimum wage industries would provide interesting stats.

I note that there is another thread running where it is suggested that low paid workers should be prioritised for social housing.
 
Early Riser said:
I note that there is another thread running where it is suggested that low paid workers should be prioritised for social housing.
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Hi Early Riser

A very good point.

I would allocate housing to someone collecting my bins ahead of someone on social welfare, irrespective of nationality.

But I suspect that if location of work was a criterion for the allocation of social housing, a lot of Irish people would find jobs and get off the dole.

Brendan
 
Early Riser said:
And I wonder how many EU citizens are employed in minimum wage jobs in Ireland ? Visit a hotel and who are you likely to find cleaning your room, cleaning the toilets, etc? And I'm sure if you went back of house you'd find the same situation there. What about other industries - how many minimum wage europeans are involved in the supply chain of cheap chickens to the supermarkets ? What about market gardening? I don't know where you live but several companies are involved in bin collection around here - I'd say all (or next to all) the guys on the lorries are foreign nationals.How about contract cleaners?

Feel free to add to this list.

I'm sure an analysis of the background of employees in our minimum wage industries would provide interesting stats.

I note that there is another thread running where it is suggested that low paid workers should be prioritised for social housing.
Click to expand...
Good points and which I fully subscribe to.

The waste industry is a classic example. When I first moved to Dublin, the bin men from what I could see were middle aged Irish corpo workers. You never saw them running after lorries or from bin to bin! But they earned a living and probably had mortgages/families being supported etc.
A privatisation later and the workers are all young Eastern Europeans probably on minimum wage who sprint around the place. I'm sure when they are too wrecked from the work, a new supply is coming behind them. Their wages aren't enough to keep them going in Dublin so they live in crowded houses or need 2nd jobs. They put themselves on the housing list as they don't earn enough.

Private industry wins out and the Irish state/taxpayer probably gets hit on several fronts...more pressure on housing and housing costs from immigration, wages having to be topped up through the likes of FIS and the former workers now probably on the dole/FIS as they're too young for the pension, too old to get a 2nd job in a lot of cases.
 
Delboy said:
Just listening back to that report and picked out 1 interesting stat.
28% of the 90k+ on the housing waiting list are non-nationals. 20% of them are EU citizens and 8% are from outside the EU.

I recall a Dail question from a few years ago about the housing waiting list in Fingal Co Co. The response was that nearly 50% of the waiting list there was made up of non-nationals.
Click to expand...

yes but never a pip about this from the various left wing political parties , doctor rory ahearne never stops banging on about social housing yet has never once observed the factor of immigration , its not a case of looking for a scapegoat but facts must be noted when it comes to policy making , immigrants will overwhelmingly move to urban areas in a new country , this obviously puts pressure on housing , especially in lower income neighbourhoods
 
Delboy said:
Good points and which I fully subscribe to.

The waste industry is a classic example. When I first moved to Dublin, the bin men from what I could see were middle aged Irish corpo workers. You never saw them running after lorries or from bin to bin! But they earned a living and probably had mortgages/families being supported etc.
A privatisation later and the workers are all young Eastern Europeans probably on minimum wage who sprint around the place. I'm sure when they are too wrecked from the work, a new supply is coming behind them. Their wages aren't enough to keep them going in Dublin so they live in crowded houses or need 2nd jobs. They put themselves on the housing list as they don't earn enough.

Private industry wins out and the Irish state/taxpayer probably gets hit on several fronts...more pressure on housing and housing costs from immigration, wages having to be topped up through the likes of FIS and the former workers now probably on the dole/FIS as they're too young for the pension, too old to get a 2nd job in a lot of cases.
Click to expand...


havent seen a bin collector who was irish in years , truck driving has also become an industry where eastern europeans dominate , wages have severely dropped , attitude of hauliers is if someone wont drive ninety hours in two weeks , a pole or lithuanian happily will , most truck drivers are earning about minimum wage when you bear in mind how many hours they do in reality
 
Delboy said:
The waste industry is a classic example. When I first moved to Dublin, the bin men from what I could see were middle aged Irish corpo workers. You never saw them running after lorries or from bin to bin! But they earned a living and probably had mortgages/families being supported etc.
A privatisation later and the workers are all young Eastern Europeans probably on minimum wage who sprint around the place. I'm sure when they are too wrecked from the work, a new supply is coming behind them. Their wages aren't enough to keep them going in Dublin so they live in crowded houses or need 2nd jobs. They put themselves on the housing list as they don't earn enough.

Private industry wins out and the Irish state/taxpayer probably gets hit on several fronts...more pressure on housing and housing costs from immigration, wages having to be topped up through the likes of FIS and the former workers now probably on the dole/FIS as they're too young for the pension, too old to get a 2nd job in a lot of cases.
Click to expand...

I don't know when you moved to Dublin, but my father used to say that when he was a young man only professionals got mortgages, bank managers would have a heart attack at the idea of Corpo workers borrowing that kind of money.
"My old man's a dustman/He wears a dustman's hat/He wears cor-blimey trousers/And he lives in a Council flat"

What I'm saying is that traditionally council houses were for low-earning workers who needed to be near enough their jobs. A large expensive city will always need binmen, cleaners, childminders, shop-workers, etc
 
Mrs Vimes said:
I don't know when you moved to Dublin, but my father used to say that when he was a young man only professionals got mortgages, bank managers would have a heart attack at the idea of Corpo workers borrowing that kind of money.
"My old man's a dustman/He wears a dustman's hat/He wears cor-blimey trousers/And he lives in a Council flat"

What I'm saying is that traditionally council houses were for low-earning workers who needed to be near enough their jobs. A large expensive city will always need binmen, cleaners, childminders, shop-workers, etc
Click to expand...

All very true, Mrs Vimes. But you are spoiling the narrative.
 
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