Daily allowance for lunch.

Keant1591

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Is the Director of a construction company allowed to take Civil Service Daily rates of €33.61 for over 10 hours and €14.01 for between 5-10 hours, or can he only take maximum of €5 per day as per country money rules. The Director is provided with a van for work so has no mileage.
 

cremeegg

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He can be paid "country money" without having to provide receipts, subject to the rules. This then is tax free.

Or he can decide not to take "country money" and claim receipted expenses from the company. There is no guidance as to amounts or limits in that case. You can be sure that many directors of companies have lunch on expenses that costs far more than the "country money" amounts.

The Civil Service rates have no relevance in this situation.
 

torblednam

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He can be paid "country money" without having to provide receipts, subject to the rules. This then is tax free.

Or he can decide not to take "country money" and claim receipted expenses from the company. There is no guidance as to amounts or limits in that case. You can be sure that many directors of companies have lunch on expenses that costs far more than the "country money" amounts.

The Civil Service rates have no relevance in this situation.
What applies to the situation, will depend on the facts. It's very unlikely that the director of a company, albeit a construction company, could/would be classified as a site based employee.
 

cremeegg

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What applies to the situation, will depend on the facts. It's very unlikely that the director of a company, albeit a construction company, could/would be classified as a site based employee.
If he works on site for 1.5 hours before and after normal lunch break he is entitled to the €5. Being a director is irrelevant.
 

Keant1591

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The director would be in different sites most weeks. Up to now all food during day was going on company credit card. The director is going to shop 2 or 3 times every day, buying coffee, sandwiches, pastries, sweets, ice cream. €5 seems unfair when others can get €33 for same.
 

torblednam

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If he works on site for 1.5 hours before and after normal lunch break he is entitled to the €5. Being a director is irrelevant.
The €5 allowance you refer to relates specifically to site based employees. A site based employee being defined as one who does not have a fixed base. What determines whether a person is a site based employee is the facts of the case.

Being a director will be relevant in any analysis of the facts to determine whether a person is site based or not, as the duties of the director will be very different to the duties of the other employees of a company. Normally, on the facts, a director will have a fixed base at the company's office (but again the facts will speak for themselves).
 

DB74

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Is the Director of a construction company allowed to take Civil Service Daily rates of €33.61 for over 10 hours and €14.01 for between 5-10 hours, or can he only take maximum of €5 per day as per country money rules. The Director is provided with a van for work so has no mileage.
The Director in this case would spend 8 hours on site most days.
Where is the director's "normal place of work"?
 

Keant1591

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Where is the director's "normal place of work"?
Doesn’t have one as such. He is a construction worker working all over the country. His registered office is his home, all the work is done on building sites where he is contracted to work.
 

torblednam

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Doesn’t have one as such. He is a construction worker working all over the country. His registered office is his home, all the work is done on building sites where he is contracted to work.
So he doesn't have a base at which he does the bookkeeping, invoicing, payroll, ordering of materials, general admin, storage of equipment / consumables / materials?
 

Keant1591

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His registered office would be his home, this is where admin work (very little) would take place. I would have thought country money rate was more appropriate but I know of carpenters etc getting civil service rates.
 

jpd

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I am reading this thread out of interest, but I am having a difficulty in understanding what the issue is - can someone please explain in simple English?

Are we talking about expenses allowed against income for tax purposes? Surely a director is entitled to expenses based on what he actually spends? or am I missing something altogether?
 

cremeegg

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I am reading this thread out of interest, but I am having a difficulty in understanding what the issue is - can someone please explain in simple English?

Are we talking about expenses allowed against income for tax purposes? Surely a director is entitled to expenses based on what he actually spends? or am I missing something altogether?
In the construction industry there is a thing called "country money" (don't you just love the name, I think it suggests good enough for culchies). This is an amount that can be paid to workers tax free and without the need for them to submit any receipts.

The workers must meet certain conditions, basically that they are sent from site to site and dont have a fixed place of employment.

It is in many ways similar to the subsistence rates paid to Civil Servants for travel. But it is not the same and anyone paying one when they should pay the other may be in for an unpleasant shock.

A director working from an office would not qualify for "Country Money" but the circumstances describe here might qualify. Although the provision of company owned transport to site might rule it out.
 

jpd

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OK, thanks. Supplementary question - is our tax system going the American way with myriads of different allowances and reliefs? If so, then plenty of jobs and cahs for those who can thread their way through it and help others.
 

Balfour

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Is the employer bound to pay you your daily allowance of 33.61 if you fit the criteria
 

RedOnion

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OK, thanks. Supplementary question - is our tax system going the American way with myriads of different allowances and reliefs? If so, then plenty of jobs and cahs for those who can thread their way through it and help others.
These things have existed for years. I understand a lot of them were union negotiated on a sector by sector basis, like flat rate expenses - e.g nurses tax credit for uniform.
If anything, I can see them being simplified.
 

Balfour

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No.
It's a tax relief where the employer does make the payment.
I know it’s a tax relief and the employer pays it but is the employer required to pay it to an employee ie, can they say it’s not an entitlement to be paid it
 

RedOnion

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, is it an entitlement to be paid it.
Ah, sorry.
If they work under a standard construction industry federation contract, it's part of their contract.

Edit: to complicate the question a bit, prior to 2013 it was illegal not to pay it, as it was contained in a Registered Employment Agreement. However, they were found to be unconstitutional in 2013. So if your contract is pre 2013, it should be in there, but after then it wasn't an obligation to have it.
 
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