current building costs

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guy incognit

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anyone have an idea what current building costs are per sq m. for a domestic project?

my architect is guesstimating at €2,000 p.s.m - seems high if builders prices are coming down.

also his fee is 12.5 % (plus vat) for the works.

seems very high too.

any comments (or recommendations for alternative architects?)
 
Being quoted in Cork €75 per sq/ft for decent enough finish for a block built house. It was €100 to €150 last year.

As for the architect bought my plans online for €1500 and I plan on using an engineer for the build for about €3k he has quoted.
 
how long is piece of string.......€2000/sm is at the high end as an average but remember its very difficult to put a figure on it exaclty without detail.

Unless two houses are exactly the same in terms of size, spec and location they will never cost the same.

Small example

An average house has say 10 doors in it and lets say the house is 3000ft
Standard regency six panels door sets cost approx €180 each therefore €0.60/ft2
White Oal panels door sets cost approx €250 each therefore €€0.83/ft2
Straight away on this small item there is a substancial difference in the cost per ft2 which when multiplied by all items can vary vastly.

Architects fee of 12.5% is rediculous no matter what he/she is including.

Builders prices for one-off housing are not coming down substancially as there is still alot of work in this market. The cost of materials is on the way up all the time.

Like everything you will have to shop around, get three quotes min for anything you do.

And of course as a biased view get a QS to price it for you
 
I was wondering about this recently when my insurance quote came through. My insurer says the rebuild cost of a 150sqm four bed detached (in Dublin) house is €400,000. I thought this seemed very high. Any ideas where I could check if this is correct or not?
 
Remember rebuild costs as quoted also includes site clearance of old damaged property.
 
Marg, the Society of Chartered Surveyors gives an annual review of house rebuilding costs on their website. The costs are given for various types of house in various parts of the country. This is probably where the insurance company is getting its figures.
 
marg,

100 per sq foot, or maybe 125 per square foot should be sufficient,

see the consumer website,
 
Building a house in Louth, called a local guy and asked him how much he was going in at for houses, he said 90-100 euros per sq ft but it depends, finished the call and said thanks. 5 mins later he texted me and said, "sorry you caught me on the hop more like 80 euros a sq ft" on a 3500 sq ft house that is some drop already before i even asked for it.
 
kkelliher said:
Architects fee of 12.5% is rediculous no matter what he/she is including.

Like everything you will have to shop around, get three quotes min for anything you do.
Click to expand...

I shopped around. The next quote for architect is 12%. Is this the RIAI recommended fee? Is there usually room for manoeuvre here?

Also, the total expected cost is around €130,000 of which about a third is fittings, kitchen etc. Why should I pay 12% on these non-architectural costs? Surely the guy knows this and is pulling a fast one. I'm getting sick of architects already.

So it's 130,000 @ 12% / 3 = €5,200 to get through planning. But if I had told him the total job was €90,000 then I'd only be paying @12% / 3 = €3,600 to get through planning. So am I a fool or is he pulling a fast one or both?

Any ideas?
 
The Architect would be able to calculate the price himself based on the m2. Your best bet would be to negotiate with the Architects(s) and fix a price for the works. They should be glad of the business..
 
joker538 said:
The Architect would be able to calculate the price himself based on the m2. Your best bet would be to negotiate with the Architects(s) and fix a price for the works. They should be glad of the business..
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what's the m2? we haven't got that far yet.

should he or should he not be working out his costs based on including my budget for kitchens and fitted weardrobes and the like?
 
m2 = square meters i.e. area!

Would the SCS (www.scs.ie) guide to house rebuilding/reinstatement costs be of any use even as a rough guide?
 
ClubMan said:
m2 = square meters i.e. area!

Would the SCS (www.scs.ie) guide to house rebuilding/reinstatement costs be of any use even as a rough guide?
Click to expand...

whoops - I though it was a form!

anyway, sure he has no idea what level I'll finish the job to, and it's none of his concern if I whack in a 20,000 kitchen or a 40k one.
 
The cost he puts on the cost of build for project is the average €100-€120 per f2 and this is what he works off.

I cant understand in this day and age why you cant get a fixed price lump sum fee irrespective of build cost as the Architect does no more or less on two houses 2500ft2 irrespective of finish, especially at planning stage.

If I was you I would contact some freelance or small practice techs who would be more than happy to do this for you. In terms of sign off all that is legally required is a competant professional (arch, engineer, tech, qs) with professional indemnity insurance. There is also nothing stopping you from doing the planning drawings yourself. A quick look at any of the LA websites and it does appear to be a growing trend.

With Archs getting laid off on a weekly basis at present you should be able to get a better deal than 12%. My god the celtic tiger likes to roar.

People give out about a Qs charging 1% of build for a BOQ which takes alot longer than planning drawings and is more economical advantages to the client. Rant over

I hope it works out for you either way, best of luck
 
guy

is it a one-off new-build or an extension with renovations etc?

where is the site located?

the architects proposal should list what you are paying for and give a breakdown of phases etc....but at the end of the day if you are not happy go elsewhere for professional services - there are plenty of architects and others out there looking for work believe me!

IMHO 12% is on high side (without knowing the detail) and i agree that fixed price quote is better but few architects are interested in quoting that way directly to clients because at this stage in a project there are a lot of unknown quantities

regarding the build costs there are a lot of variation depending on many issues that have been repeated on other posts but at this early stage it would be better to have a realistic budget (eg on high side) that can be trimmed later if possible than to start of thinking you are gonna get a house built for 750persqm and then 3 months later find out you are way under budget.

as far as the planning process - there are other ways to progress rather than the traditional client/architect relationship but i would still advise engaging someone who knows the ropes as it can be a long drawn out process

another problem I often see is clients come to construction stage with the planning drawings in their hand having parted ways with the architect when planning was granted.

they now want to go straight to a builder and get an accurate "fixed" price and start on site but generally there has been no detailed input into the design drawings to allow for proper pricing for construction stage because its not necessary at planning stage - therefore there is no surpise that there is such a variation in prices

my opinion re the traditional construction pricing process is that whoever takes the most risk will get paid the most - if clients want to get keen prices from architect or builder or supplier, they should to what they can to remove the risk from the party and they will generally get a better price....

m
 
need2build said:
guy

is it a one-off new-build or an extension with renovations etc?

where is the site located?

the architects proposal should list what you are paying for and give a breakdown of phases etc....but at the end of the day if you are not happy go elsewhere for professional services - there are plenty of architects and others out there looking for work believe me!

IMHO 12% is on high side (without knowing the detail) and i agree that fixed price quote is better but few architects are interested in quoting that way directly to clients because at this stage in a project there are a lot of unknown quantities

regarding the build costs there are a lot of variation depending on many issues that have been repeated on other posts but at this early stage it would be better to have a realistic budget (eg on high side) that can be trimmed later if possible than to start of thinking you are gonna get a house built for 750persqm and then 3 months later find out you are way under budget.

as far as the planning process - there are other ways to progress rather than the traditional client/architect relationship but i would still advise engaging someone who knows the ropes as it can be a long drawn out process

another problem I often see is clients come to construction stage with the planning drawings in their hand having parted ways with the architect when planning was granted.

they now want to go straight to a builder and get an accurate "fixed" price and start on site but generally there has been no detailed input into the design drawings to allow for proper pricing for construction stage because its not necessary at planning stage - therefore there is no surpise that there is such a variation in prices

my opinion re the traditional construction pricing process is that whoever takes the most risk will get paid the most - if clients want to get keen prices from architect or builder or supplier, they should to what they can to remove the risk from the party and they will generally get a better price....

m
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there's no risk here, I'm just looking to get to the far side of planning and then pick it up again as needed. asking me to pay based on the full eventual price is a bit much. it's just some drawing and paperwork for now.

it's an extension with renovations in south dublin.
 
In fairness guy incongit you are paying to have a professional guide you through the extension/renovation you are gettin done.You dont seem to have much knowledge of building generally.

Do you not know someone in the trade who can guide through the various stages required.It is certainly cheaper to go direct labour and just employ an engineer/architect to sign the work off.

But I do think the cost is big - both for the work being done and the professional fee.

If you are interested you can post the approx size of the extension and the type of renovation work required.It is the only way to judge if the price you have on the table is good or bad.
 
guy

maybe risk is too strong a word - my point is that you are asking someone to quote for the provision of services (be it a builder or architect) at a very early stage in a project and it is hard to give an exact answer when you are not given exact info - therefore people invariably come up with a figure that is high enough to cover them for most outcomes.

personally i dont agree with percentage fee quotes for the reasons you outline but i do understand why they are often given and are often on the high side

cost saving is one thing but at the end of the day you want the job done right and if you are not familiar with building you can easily be taken for a ride therefore you do need some professional advice

i am currently managing a renovate and extend job for a client in D14 and the costs are way beyond 1000/sqm so i wouldnt entertain that as a budget - doing that sort of work properly on an existing semi-detached or similar is not cheap. i would say for the new build element 2000/sqm is probably a good starting point but the time and effort involved in serious renovations is hard to quantify on a per sqm basis but as a guide i would say 500/sqm minimum unless you know exactly what is required. but things like underpinning or laying new floors etc can ramp this up....never mind the cost of skips for demolition etc

i procured the design drawings, structural details etc on a fixed price basis and have a sourced the various trades as required on fixed prices.

there is no reason anyone couldnt do the same if they have the free time and the patience but they would have to spend a lot of time and effort chasing people and going back and forward to site etc and it would be a steep learning curve

as wexford dude says - give us some more info and we'll see how it stacks up

m
 
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