CSO enumerator job + public service pension query

gipimann

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The CSO have advertised for enumerators for the 2022 census today.

On reading the Information booklet provided by the CSO, I noted the following paragraphs:

Pension Abatement
If the appointee has previously been employed in the Civil or Public Service and is in receipt of a
pension from the Civil or Public Service or where a Civil/Public Service pension comes into
payment during their re-employment that pension will be subject to abatement in accordance with
Section 52 of the Public Service Pensions (Single Scheme and Other Provisions) Act 2012.

Please note: In applying for this position you are acknowledging that you understand that
the abatement provisions, where relevant, will apply. It is not envisaged that the employing
Department/Office will support an application for an abatement waiver in respect of
appointments to this position.

However, if the appointee was previously employed in the Civil or Public Service and awarded a
pension under voluntary early retirement arrangements (other than the Incentivised Scheme of Early
Retirement (ISER), the Department of Health Circular 7/2010 VER/VRS or the Department of
Environment, Community & Local Government Circular letter LG(P) 06/2013, any of which
renders a person ineligible for the competition) the entitlement to that pension will cease with effect
from the date of reappointment. Special arrangements may, however, be made for the reckoning of
previous service given by the appointee for the purpose of any future superannuation award for
which the appointee may be eligible.


I understand the Pension Abatement provisions as set out in Section 52.

The third paragraph seems to indicate that a PS employee who took cost-neutral early retirement (CNER) will have their PS pension stopped for the duration of any subsequent PS employment.

Am I correct in my interpretation of this paragraph? Is voluntary early retirement the same as CNER?

I took CNER from the civil service at the beginning of 2020. If my interpretation is correct, obtaining the enumerator post would stop my PS pension for the 10 week duration of the job.

For anyone interested, applications can be made to www.census.ie (closing date next week).
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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Am I correct in my interpretation of this paragraph? Is voluntary early retirement the same as CNER?
I don't think so.

If you search the term "voluntary early retirement" you generally get the schemes that were available to HSE and local authorities between about 2009 and 2013. I think these were time-limited, voluntary schemes that were on better terms than CNER.
 

gipimann

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Thanks, NoRegretsCoyote,

The schemes you mentioned are specifically named in the paragraph I refer to (and elsewhere in the booklet) - a person who availed of one of the incentivised schemes are excluded from applying for the job. Most PS jobs, whether permanent or temporary, exclude the "incentivised retirees".
It's the first time I've seen anything related to "voluntary early retirement" - which, in a sense, CNER is.

It's all a bit too vague for me to take a chance on, even if only for 10 weeks work.

Edit: I have emailed CSO to ask for clarification - I'll post any reply I receive.
 
Last edited:

NoRegretsCoyote

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It's all a bit too vague for me to take a chance on, even if only for 10 weeks work.
I'm sure they will clarify it for you.

It's the first time I've seen anything related to "voluntary early retirement" - which, in a sense, CNER is.

It is conceptually, but it seems to refer to specific schemes.

Otherwise the terminology around this kind of stuff is a total mess and should really be rationalized. If you dig throught circulars.gov.ie you might learn a bit more.
 

gipimann

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An update.

I received a reply from the CSO this afternoon.
They have confirmed that PS employees who took CNER will have their PS pension stopped for the duration of the census enumerator contract.
 

deanpark

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You'd think the census job was a plum number. It's sort of around minimum wage €3200 top whack for 220 hours (but this is vague - as you need to get all the forms back come hell or high water!!) .

The application form is looking to see high falutin' "competencies", most elevated level of educational attainment , Irish language proficiency, references, clean drivers license etc etc - what planet are these guys on? I never realised the unfortunate census person you see scurrying around the streets in unsocial hours and at weekends etc was so qualified and talented!! No such cut and dry criteria for shoe-in political appointments.....
 

deanpark

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Ok - so the instance below is a one-off?!;)

"Taoiseach Micheál Martin has defended Eamon Ryan’s appointment of his former special adviser and an ex-Green Party election candidate to €9,800-a-year positions on the Climate Change Advisory Council (CCAC) without an open competition.

Mr Martin was responding to calls from Sinn Féin for the Environment Minister to make a statement in the Dáil about the process which led to the appointments of Professor Morgan D Bazilian and Dr Cara Augustenborg as members of the CCAC.

Members of the council receive an annual fee of €9,800 as well as travel and subsistence expenses in line with public service rates. They were two of four appointments made by Mr Ryan to the CCAC in October. "
 

Shirazman

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Ok - so the instance below is a one-off?!;)

"Taoiseach Micheál Martin has defended Eamon Ryan’s appointment of his former special adviser and an ex-Green Party election candidate to €9,800-a-year positions on the Climate Change Advisory Council (CCAC) without an open competition.

Mr Martin was responding to calls from Sinn Féin for the Environment Minister to make a statement in the Dáil about the process which led to the appointments of Professor Morgan D Bazilian and Dr Cara Augustenborg as members of the CCAC.

Members of the council receive an annual fee of €9,800 as well as travel and subsistence expenses in line with public service rates. They were two of four appointments made by Mr Ryan to the CCAC in October. "

Presumably you missed this bit:

"Minister Ryan insisted that the appointments to the council followed correct procedures. "I stand over the process, I believe it was the correct one and it was followed to the letter of the law," he told the Dáil. He said there are some instances where a minister and a department is best placed to set up a council and this has happened previously.
Minister Ryan said this was the right way to do things to get the best mix of skills and talent, and it followed the procedures as set out in the Cabinet Handbook. "
 

deanpark

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No interview though for Minister Ryan's grace an favour gig or jumping through such pernickety hoops such as those (and lots of others) set out for the census enumerator roles. That's the nub of it.
 

RetirementPlan

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No interview though for Minister Ryan's grace an favour gig or jumping through such pernickety hoops such as those (and lots of others) set out for the census enumerator roles. That's the nub of it.
They're fairly different roles though, aren't they? One is a short-term operational role, one is a medium-term part-time strategic advice role. Augustenborg certainly has a strong reputation in that space. I've never heard of the other one, but at a guess, he'll know what he's talking about in this area.

I was narked when Ryan, in his previous life as a Minister, appointed a full-time Commissioner for Energy Regulation without due process. These appointments to an advisory committee are in a different league.
 

Shirazman

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No interview though for Minister Ryan's grace an favour gig or jumping through such pernickety hoops such as those (and lots of others) set out for the census enumerator roles. That's the nub of it.

If, as Ryan claims, he followed the procedures set out in the Cabinet handbook, then it's difficult to see why you're criticising him rather than the procedures that he followed.
 

Shirazman

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I was narked when Ryan, in his previous life as a Minister, appointed a full-time Commissioner for Energy Regulation without due process.

Me too. I well remember being incensed with him and his arrogant/nonchalant 'I know what I'm doing' response.
 
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