CS pension - question re S&C contributions

gipimann

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Could I ask the Civil Service pension experts for their opinion and observations please?

I am retiring shortly, and have received the figures for pension and gratuity from the CS shared services HR.
There is a deduction being made from my gratuity in respect of Spouses & Children's contributions which are deemed owed. I'm disputing this but am not getting anywhere (bad time of the year to try to get anyone, I know!).

I worked from 1978 to 1986 in the public service and did not pay S&C (it didn't exist until 1981 and I opted out until I changed jobs and was opted in in 1986).
I am aware that I owe for this period in question (about 8 years).

I have paid S&C since 1986 - approx. 33 years.

I was divorced in 2003.

The CS pension guidebook states that...
"Non-periodic contributions are payable in respect of "relevant service", which means:
.....(b) for a widowed or divorced member, the period from the start of the member's reckonable service up to the date of the end of the marriage"

and..
"The non-periodic contribution rate is
(a) 1% of retiring salary for each year of relevant service, less any years in respect of which periodic contributions (or purchase contributions) were paid;..."

My understanding of the S&C scheme, and my reading of the relevant guideline handbooks indicates that I am liable for S&C from the time I started work up to the time I divorced (approx. 25 years). Shared Service HR agree with this.
My reading of the paragraph above is that the 8 years I owe should be reduced by the number of years I have paid into the scheme since my divorce. By my calculations, I should owe nothing, but shared services HR don't agree.

A few years ago, I asked shared services HR about S&C contributions owed, and they confirmed at the time that my contributions made since my divorce would offset any years owed for my early service. Now they appear to be telling me the opposite.

Am I misreading the handbook information? Were HR correct when they told me I had no liability or are they correct now?
I'd appreciate any guidance, thank you.
 
Hi gipiman, I am not familiar with this so I am only giving my tuppence worth from reading the CS Pensions Handbook. Based on this only, I suspect that HRs current interpretation is probably correct, for a number of reasons.

As per 16.15b, you were married at some period during membership of the scheme - therefore non-periodic contributions are payable.

As you joined in 1986 I assume you are a member of the revised scheme. Therefore, if you re-married (!), even after retirement, your spouse would be eligible for a pension should you pre-decease him.

There is no provision in the scheme for a person to cease paying contributions, or to subsequently get a refund of contributions, following divorce.

In the revised scheme at least, all officers have to pay contributions for all reckonable service, even officers who never married.

I agree that there is ambiguity around 16.16b, but I do not think enough to trump the other factors.

PS. I note that there is a provision in the original scheme (only) for a refund in the event of widowhood (in certain circumstances) - but it does not mention divorce. In any event, I still assume you are in the revised scheme.
 
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Thanks, ER, much appreciated.
I am a member of the revised scheme. I wasn't expecting any refund from the scheme.

I would agree that the issue arises out of the difference between my "reckonable service" (what my pension is based on) vs my "relevant service" (what my S&C liability is based on the handbook).

Two HR areas (CS shared services HR and HSE, my former employer) have interpreted 16.16b in the same way as I did (no liability due) and given me that in writing. CS shared services HR are now saying the opposite, which has come as a bit of a shock!.

I'll let ye know how I get on, and thanks again for your reply.
 
I promised to give an update on this when I had more info....

My case was referred to DPER, and they have decided that the deduction was incorrectly made and should be refunded to me.

There is a small amount owed in S&C contributions - I'm waiting for full details, but I think it is related to the fact that I was in an acting capacity (temporary promotion) for a time.

I am due to receive a refund n the near future.

Thanks again ER for your response.
 
Perhaps your inquiries into the S&C scheme could be useful in addressing this query. My wife joined a local authority staff in 1982, permanent. Would she have had an option to join the Spouses & Children's Scheme or would she have been enrolled automatically? This has arisen as a substantial deduction has been made from her lump sum in respect of her local authority service only. Any info?
 
Slim, as far as I can tell, in 1982, women still had the option to join the scheme or not.
If your wife changed jobs in or after 1986, she would have been opted in automatically from the date of her new employment. The sting in the tail is that if she was opted in at any time, contributions are due from the date she started in the public service, including the years she previously opted out.
This is what happened to me. I opted out in 1981, but was opted in when I changed jobs in 1986. When I retired, I received a bill for almost 8 years contributions. I was able to successfully argue that the bill wasn't owed due to my divorce. Had I still been married, I would have had no comeback.
 
Perhaps your inquiries into the S&C scheme could be useful in addressing this query. My wife joined a local authority staff in 1982, permanent. Would she have had an option to join the Spouses & Children's Scheme or would she have been enrolled automatically? This has arisen as a substantial deduction has been made from her lump sum in respect of her local authority service only. Any info?

Slim, there are two schemes. The "revised scheme" dates from 1 Sept. 1984. Female officers appointed before this, but after 1st June 1981, would/should have been automatically enrolled in the "original scheme". Prior to 1st June 1981 they could have opted out. If in the "original scheme" they should have been offered the opportunity to change to the "revised scheme". And if they changed jobs after 1st Sept 1984 they probably automatically changed to the "revised scheme". (Not sure about this).

You can read about it at Ch.16 here :http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/SuperannuationHandbookandGuidanceDec20061.pdf
 
Thank you both. It seems that it is possible that she was not included automatically or even that she did not opt in. On changing employer in 2001, she was opted in so the 1st period of employment will now have to be checked. Thank you both for your very knowledgeable replies. Slim
 
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