Croke Park agreement and a new government

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anastasiablu

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What will happen if elements of the Croke park agreement (namely extended working day( 8-8)) are implemented and a new government appointed decides to throw out the Croke Park agreement , will public servants (in health sector) now on new hours have pay cuts and redundancies on the near horizon. If so God help all of you waitng for results to your lab tests because our numbers have decreased and hours extended to such a degree that the waffle from Harney et al that services will not be effected is so far removed from the truth its not funny.
 
'tis a case of ...... wait and see.

As it stands the Croke Park Agreement is the only game in town so that's what we play.
 
Judging by this article in the indo today don't hold out much hope of any reform at all....
 
pinkyBear said:
Judging by this article in the indo today don't hold out much hope of any reform at all....
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I wouldn't hold out much hope for an http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/public-servants-arent-cut-out-to-be-shiny-happy-people-1930357.html (impartial article)on this subject from the Indo...
 
Ah more of the same from our Indo "friends"... Lies and lies again!

This 'privilege day' issue has been in the news since the Croke Park Agreement (CPA).

It claimed the move would have saved €4.6m -- based on a simple calculation of the number of civil servants, the number of extra days they got and their average pay
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It was actually the Dept. of Finance and the former Government who claimed it would save this amount.

But yesterday the unions succeeded in preserving their members' rights to the privilege days after a civil service dispute's body delivered a damning verdict on the State's case for change.
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As far as I know, it was the PSEU and AHCPS who represent middle and senior ranking civil servants (EO's & HEO's to AP's PO's and Secretary Generals) who took the case to the Arbitration Board as their members stood to lose these leave days. The CPSU who represent lower paid, mainly clerical officers in the CS (who only get the minimum entitlement to annual leave (20days), plus 1 extra day after 5 years service, plus one more after 10) has already reached an agreement with Government that these privilege days would be converted into official annual leave days under the CPA.

Lower-paid civil servants, who have 29 days' annual leave,
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There are no "low paid" civil servants getting 29 days annual leave. Fact!
Higher Executive Officers get 29 days leave only after 10 years service at that grade. The maximum a low paid civil servant can get is 23 days and this is for a Staff Officer grade.
 
RonanC said:
The CPSU who represent lower paid, mainly clerical officers in the CS (who only get the minimum entitlement to annual leave (20days), plus 1 extra day after 5 years service, plus one more after 10) has already reached an agreement with Government that these privilege days would be converted into official annual leave days under the CPA.
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Is that 20 days plus the extra two now that they aren't celebrating Empire Day or the Kings birthday anymore?
If so did they only get 18 days before that or have they just given up the two days?
If they just gave them up did they get a payment to do so?
 
I think this quote from the article is interesting.

"The department said it would get extra productivity from staff doing two more days' work in the year -- though it could not give details of how that would work in practice or how the savings would be made."

It sounds more like it was a populist decision by the previous government rather than looking for real reform. Lower paid staff were going to get an extra 2 days annual leave to compensate for loss of privledge days so they would not be working any extra days in a year.
 
Purple said:
Is that 20 days plus the extra two now that they aren't celebrating Empire Day or the Kings birthday anymore?
If so did they only get 18 days before that or have they just given up the two days?
If they just gave them up did they get a payment to do so?
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Its 20 days for full time employee's and I would estimate that there is many who are part time or job sharers, so they would get a percentage of this.

The 'privilege days' have been taken for many many years and are in addition to the annual leave entitlement. I had no idea what they were for, but only knew that you could take one day at Christmas and one at Easter. I dont know of any Government department or office that closes during these days and arrangements are made to ensure sufficient cover is in place while staff take their 'leave'.

If you fail to take the day for whatever reason, you lose the entitlement to it and at the end of the day, its up to local management to grant this leave on the basis that business should continue without major disruption.

The figures I posted above are for 5 days working staff and are part of their contracts of employment.
 
Purple said:
OK, so it's currently 22 days leave a year (20 +2) minimum.
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Yes and the proposal was to incorporate these privilege days for CO/SO grade staff into official annual leave days, and this figure remain at 22 days for a commencing CO in full time employment or equivalent, rising to 23 days after 5 years, and 24 days after 10 years. All other grades would be subject to a reduction of one day or loss of both days depending on their current annual leave entitlement.
 
Purple said:
So there would be a reduction of one day for lower grade staff, yes?
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No. The reduction would apply to higher grades only who already receive more annual leave in comparision to CO's & SO's. HEO's and up would be the only grades who currently receive more than 25 days per year in the CS.

See here
 
From what i read, if privledge days were removed, grades with 20 to 24 days leave with get an extra two days leave compensation ( so would be no worse off).
Grades with 25 to 29 days holidays would get one day's leave compensation (so would have one less day off a year).
Grades with 30 or more days holidays would receive no extra annual leave days ( so would have two day's less off a year).
 
I assume there are more lower paid grades than higher ones so no, I don't think the net saving would be that much.
IMO a compromise solution could have been to get rid of the day at Easter for everyone but keep the one at Christmas as a lot of people (public and private) take leave around this time anyway.
 
Shawady said:
From what i read, if privledge days were removed, grades with 20 to 24 days leave with get an extra two days leave compensation ( so would be no worse off).
Grades with 25 to 29 days holidays would get one day's leave compensation (so would have one less day off a year).
Grades with 30 or more days holidays would receive no extra annual leave days ( so would have two day's less off a year).
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And to me, this seemed perfectly fine and logical. I don't think ordinary civil servants would have a problem. However, once again it appears senior civil servants decided that this didn't suit them as unlike lower grades, they don't get overtime and tend to work more 'out of office' hours so they thought losing 2 days leave hit them disproportionaly. They used the same argument to defend their bonuses. This is the group where reform is most urgently needed. They don't seem to realise that some of them already get paid more than the leader of Germany. I think they are more than compensated for the work they do.
 
I would have thought the longer you worked in an area the better/more important you would be (perhaps increments reflect this I don't know), so surely it would make sense to have less holidays as you advance up the scales?
 
I don't think it was just about the saving in monetary terms though. I think they are trying to standardise the terms and conditions of employment in the public and civil sector to make redeployment easier. This is where the real savings would be found.
 
Those at the lower grades can work up flexi-time so the 20 days (now 22) could actually end up being 38 days (now 40). The higher grades don't work flexi and would generally work more than the minimum hours.
 
dereko1969 said:
Those at the lower grades can work up flexi-time so the 20 days (now 22) could actually end up being 38 days (now 40). The higher grades don't work flexi and would generally work more than the minimum hours.
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Flexi-time is not universal in the Civil Service. Some offices have it and some don't. Your statement above is misleading.

Also misleading is the inference that flexi-time leads to more days off. The Civil Service flexi-time arrangement (when available!) allows the employee to structure their working time within some strict limits... the general jist being that the employee has the potential to work an additional 1.5 days in a given 4 week period and then to take this time within the next 4 week time period - subject to management approval.

All time off gained is equal to extra time worked.
 
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