Covid testing - delays - what is the issue ? Just isolate

Brendan Burgess said:
I heard this Nobel prize winner on the radio yesterday

en.wikipedia.org

Paul Romer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

He says that we should be just testing people who don't have symptoms.

It is pointless testing people who have the symptoms.

Brendan
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But is the issue then you get a load of negative results and those same people then go out the next day feeling invincible and then get infected and then they have infected a load more people by the time they get symptoms. You would need to be continuously testing people without symptoms. I can understand why it has to do be done to see what community transmission is happening but I am not sure I agree that it is pointless testing people with symptoms.
 
Using testing data, enables the HSE to identify clusters, monitor the spread of the virus by statistically calculating the probability of the spread, perform contact tracing and identify outbreaks in the future.

It is difficult to test the entire population due to the time constraints and availability of testing commodities.

We should be following New York's lead and perform random sampling to identify asymptomatic carriers or people who have antibody immunity. This will reassure and help more people back to work.

Why are universities and outlets not performing research? Surveys of the irish population via social media or newspapers? Future symptoms post covid

We need entrepreneurs to create gagets to help how companies comply with social distancing.

The WHO said in a live broadcast of the importance of identifying the intermediate host to prevent a pandemic again.
 
christopher.. said:
Why are universities and outlets not performing research? Surveys of the irish population via social media or newspapers? Future symptoms post covid
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There is tonnes of research underway on all facets of COVID-19. A survey via social media or newspapers wouldn't meet the criteria to be taken seriously as scientific research though, you can't implement proper controls on the data set.


christopher.. said:
We need entrepreneurs to create gagets to help how companies comply with social distancing.
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They already exist. You can get room density scanners that monitor the number of people in a space, numbers coming through doors, etc., but they're not cheap. You're talking billions to install across all large workplaces. We have had some on trial in our workplace since before this broke.
 
community test results are still taking in excess of 7 days, don't get caught up in the waffle of a quick turnaround, this MUST be improved prior to any restrictions being lifted, hospital test results take a matter of hours
 
To be honest, to have an average turnaround of 5 days for tests after two months of lockdown is not acceptable. I gave them the benefit of the doubt but we bought the HSE and public health bodies a significant amount of time to get all this in place. Easing restrictions with such a long turnaround is dangerous. What is the delay? Not hearing about delays with getting tested so where is the bottleneck? Is it labs? Lack of equipment?
 
I think it is high time the HSE got their collective fingers out and gave us the level of testing that they promised us many weeks ago i.e. 15k per day. Heading into the weekend before last we were told that they would have testing complete in the nursing homes by the end of that weekend but this evening we were told that they have just finished in the nursing homes this weekend. Testing (or lack of it) is now the obvious weakest link in the whole plan and has been from very early on and the so called journalists at the daily press conferences don’t seem to want to ask their hosts any really awkward questions in this regard.
 
Sunny said:
To be honest, to have an average turnaround of 5 days for tests after two months of lockdown is not acceptable. I gave them the benefit of the doubt but we bought the HSE and public health bodies a significant amount of time to get all this in place. Easing restrictions with such a long turnaround is dangerous. What is the delay? Not hearing about delays with getting tested so where is the bottleneck? Is it labs? Lack of equipment?
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Agreed Sunny. We have been told since the beginning that testing is crucial. As you say we have all played our part but those in charge of testing have not done their bit based on their own promises and it's getting quite frustrating. We should be told the real story, what is holding it up and what is the reason for that. Is it still the lack of reagent (which we're told is out of their control) or is it something within our control. We keep hearing of promises around the number of tests to be carried out but tbh at this stage I'm more concerned with the time taken from requesting a test to getting the results.
 
My other half works in a nursing home. Tested last week. Still no results! Was actually told their results (maybe tests) (not just hers, a good few of them) are gone missing.
 
Imagine someone who has spent 20 years sitting on a couch, eating crisps and watching daytime TV. Now they are trying to run a marathon. They are 100% committed to running it and are trying their best. But they can't; They are 20 stone and get out of breath going to the fridge.
That's the HSE; they, collectively, have resisted reform , encourages waste and inefficiency and have collectively brainwashed themselves into blaming everyone else for their shortcomings. Now they have a hero complex. How on earth do you expect them to be better than this?
 
According to the briefing today, there were about 44000 tests carried out in the past week. Are we not supposed to be at double this at this stage??? Nobody seems to be questioning anymore. They do the briefing, announce some figures and off we go. Where exactly are we with testing? Clusters in nursing homes, prisons, direct provision and in Roma and traveller communities. Are they any clusters in the general population? In any towns, villages, cities that cant be explained by the above groupings. There might well be but the figures dont suggest there are. But that could be because we have no idea what is there. So back to original point. Where are we with testing?
 
llgon said:
Perhaps it's part of our culture?
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That's weeks and numerous briefings where testing was going to be in place the following week and we were on track. We are 8 weeks down the line, testing half what they said they would and say things will be better once they automate sending negative results back to people. There is a limit. If they come out and tell us where the issue is then fair enough. But 8 weeks of pushing the can down the road is enough.

Never mind the tracing app that was going to be crucial for the restrictions to be lifted. Now it will a role to play but it will be a small one.
 
Sunny said:
That's weeks and numerous briefings where testing was going to be in place the following week and we were on track. We are 8 weeks down the line, testing half what they said they would and say things will be better once they automate sending negative results back to people. There is a limit. If they come out and tell us where the issue is then fair enough. But 8 weeks of pushing the can down the road is enough.

Never mind the tracing app that was going to be crucial for the restrictions to be lifted. Now it will a role to play but it will be a small one.
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The organisations involved have a strong culture of not having any real accountability. They can't change that in 8 weeks; it is bred into them. Leadership, decision making, accountability and good process design are simply alien concepts.They are the fat guy on the couch. They are doing their best but there are just lots of things, lots of skills, that they simply don't have.
 
Well years of complete mismanagement is showing up now when different hospitals are using different computer systems that can't talk to each other or else are using out of date operating systems. Crazy that any organisation would allow that to happen. I know the argument that they can't be spending money on IT projects when there are waiting lists but it is a false economy. I know it is very difficult to build something like this up from scratch but to be still talking about automating text messages for negative results at this stage is a bit crazy.

Also I heard them say that tracing now is more complicated with patients in residential settings because they might not be able to verbalise so it is taking longer. If a residential setting can't at this stage give the name of every person that has been in contact with a patient over the two weeks, we need to start talking negligence.
 
Sunny said:
Well years of complete mismanagement is showing up now when different hospitals are using different computer systems that can't talk to each other or else are using out of date operating systems. Crazy that any organisation would allow that to happen. I know the argument that they can't be spending money on IT projects when there are waiting lists but it is a false economy. I know it is very difficult to build something like this up from scratch but to be still talking about automating text messages for negative results at this stage is a bit crazy.
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The problem isn't the IT systems, it is getting the workforce to agree to use them. Every change is resisted and in effect everyone has a veto. Therefore nothing changes from a systems and process perspective and billions are wasted every year. Then the same people complain about lack of resources, waste and inefficiency.
 
Purple said:
The problem isn't the IT systems,
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Exactly, when they have tried to implement national standard systems, each hospital group still insist that the solution must comply to all their current idiosyncratic work practices and procedures to the point that it becomes nigh on impossible integrate them all. Changes to work practices are resisted unless they comes with more money, even when the proposed changes would make everyone's lives easier.
 
To be fair to staff, it is not them that decide that many of their PC's/Laptops still run on Windows 7 and need to pay over 1m this to Microsoft for extended support. I don't care how complicated your business is. You know that operation systems have shelf lives and you plan. To allow over 60% of your computer hardware to run on end of life operating system is just careless. Even the simple idea that they have a case of Mac's trying to talk to Pc's and that is leading to testing delays shows how totally disjointed the whole system is.
 
Sunny said:
To be fair to staff, it is not them that decide that many of their PC's/Laptops still run on Windows 7 and need to pay over 1m this to Microsoft for extended support.
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Those managing the IT infrastructure, or failing to do so, are staff too.
 
Leo said:
Those managing the IT infrastructure, or failing to do so, are staff too.
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Yes; they are the HSE. So are the nurses and doctors and administrators and everyone else. The HSE is not some abstract concept, it is the people who work there.
 
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Leo said:
Those managing the IT infrastructure, or failing to do so, are staff too.
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I don't know what happens where you work but I certainly don't get a say in company's worldwide IT strategy and certainly not involved in keeping an eye on things to ensure that my computer is going to work tomorrow. I am not paid to do that. I get paid to do other things. But hey lets blame all staff for every shortcoming. Bloody lazy public sector. Blaming IT failures on nurses, doctors, cleaning staff and others in the HSE is like blaming the pilot for crashing a plane that wasn't maintained properly because the airline decided to save costs and use cheap parts. Why didn't the pilot take the plane apart before flying it? Oh right, because other people are paid to that job and he trusted them to do it.
 
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