Court Summons, driving without due care & attention

galway_blow_in

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Agree 110% (if that was possible) with @galway_blow_in .
I have been told same by many a guard, some of which I am related to.
Keep 'stum', until the court requires you to speak, for many a good reason, some of which will only come to light during the hearing itself.
If required to speak, answer the question and only that question in as few words as possible, do not 'volunteer' information.
A few tales have been recounted to me where people who believed 'they were 100% in the right' have unwittingly talked themselves into a conviction.
It would be naive not to think plenty of guards have an interest in securing convictions, CV, s don't fatten without results.

The DPP will do what they are going to do in most cases, no need to help out the interviewing guard by confirming anymore than your name and address.

Nobody ever got convicted in court for having pleaded the fifth
 

mathepac

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7,224
@galway_blow_in I'm not saying that you're suggesting lying it's just my story is so simple and straightforward that it amounts to nothing. I drove my car on that date at that place and time en route from visiting my grandson in Our Lady's Hospital in Crumlin and I've admitted to that fact. I've also stated that no one incident on that journey stands out for any reason, it was as unremarkable as these journeys can be, i.e. no mad speedsters, no undertakers, no road-rage incidents that I saw, no lightless vehicles, no lane-wanderers, etc. That's it.
 

Brendan Burgess

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Hi mathepac

In my opinion you are dead right. You have nothing to hide. Of course, there might be a mad conspiracy to get you, but it's unlikely.

You are using a solicitor. What did she advise?

Brendan
 

mathepac

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I have yet to have a consultation @Brendan , I.ve agreed to contact his office to arrange one next week.
 

LS400

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562
This whole episode that has been keeping us entertained is an absolute disgrace to be honest. What a complete waste of everyone's time. Either this guy has you nailed to the wall with indisputable proof of your misdemeanor, and you have us all fooled by your innocence, or, the Guard pursuing this charade is a complete idiot who should be taken to task by a "sensible" Judge should it get that far, and if it doesn't get to that stage, I would want to know, from the Superintendent of the station why, having listened to both sides, someone hadn't the cop-on to nip this in the bud. God help us if this is what we have to rely on.

I say this, because you seem to be a pretty Normal individual of sound mind. But here we have, Anxiety, stress, Garda time taken up, unnecessary engaging of a solicitor, your time, the Judges time etc, over what, an episode that you say couldn't have happened.

Bad driving should be investigated, No doubt about that. It should be investigated to the point of gathering the evidence. If there is none, stop. Full stop.

Having listened to your part, I as a guard would have come to the conclusion, that this guy may have got it wrong, to put it mildly. Whats to stop me over exaggerating a simple driving issue with the guy in front of me, i didnt like the way he over took me without indicating, he was wayy too close to me on that bend etc etc... I insist you to prosecute this driver.

What would have happened before, I as the guard would have, having listened to your version of events, and got the make on you, suggested to you that I call the complainant, saying we had words and its now dealt with, and, if you dont mind, if off now to catch a burglar.

Common sense has left the building on that one it would seem. Or, you should be on stage.
 

mathepac

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7,224
I agree @LS400 , I believe the entire thing is a farce and a huge waste of time and money. Someone seems to feel the need to 'mark my card' so to speak and I've no idea why Hopefully Rumpole can shed some light next week.
 

galway_blow_in

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1,584
This whole episode that has been keeping us entertained is an absolute disgrace to be honest. What a complete waste of everyone's time. Either this guy has you nailed to the wall with indisputable proof of your misdemeanor, and you have us all fooled by your innocence, or, the Guard pursuing this charade is a complete idiot who should be taken to task by a "sensible" Judge should it get that far, and if it doesn't get to that stage, I would want to know, from the Superintendent of the station why, having listened to both sides, someone hadn't the cop-on to nip this in the bud. God help us if this is what we have to rely on.

I say this, because you seem to be a pretty Normal individual of sound mind. But here we have, Anxiety, stress, Garda time taken up, unnecessary engaging of a solicitor, your time, the Judges time etc, over what, an episode that you say couldn't have happened.

Bad driving should be investigated, No doubt about that. It should be investigated to the point of gathering the evidence. If there is none, stop. Full stop.

Having listened to your part, I as a guard would have come to the conclusion, that this guy may have got it wrong, to put it mildly. Whats to stop me over exaggerating a simple driving issue with the guy in front of me, i didnt like the way he over took me without indicating, he was wayy too close to me on that bend etc etc... I insist you to prosecute this driver.

What would have happened before, I as the guard would have, having listened to your version of events, and got the make on you, suggested to you that I call the complainant, saying we had words and its now dealt with, and, if you dont mind, if off now to catch a burglar.

Common sense has left the building on that one it would seem. Or, you should be on stage.

BB must think your a mad conspiracy theorist too for doubting the actions of the prosecuting guard , bless the innocents who think guards dont run with flimsy evidence in order to notch up another rap . as if mathewpac having nothing to hide will trump all

do the same people never listen to the news ?
 

DirectDevil

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Messages
710
Any sign of disclosure yet ?

I would be curious to see if any of the complainants are known to you and if there is malicious mischief afoot against you as this one has me foxed.
 

mathepac

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7,224
It has me foxed too as the complainants are not known to me. Meeting Rumpole soon to tap into his wisdom and experience. I should have said he had quite a number of clients on the day in court and seemed on familiar terms with the Judge. On the day he handed in a number of practice cheques as part of previous adjudications, payable to named charities, apparently nominated at previous sittings.
 

Drakon

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821
Bad driving should be investigated, No doubt about that. It should be investigated to the point of gathering the evidence. If there is none, stop. Full stop.
I was in court earlier this year having reported a case of bad driving. I had no evidence apart from my statement.

Long-story-short: it was my word against his and his girlfriend’s words. The judge believed me.
He didn’t get done for DD but CD instead:
5 penalty points and a €250 fine. He had no previous (driving) convictions/offences.
 
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Drakon

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What was the driving “manoeuvre” anyway, or do you even know (yet)?
 
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Drakon

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The judge will look for evidence. As there seems so much uncertainty about the location, it would be hard for the judge to find you guilty.
In my case, the defense solicitor focussed on location very much. Grilled me on it and said he drove that stretch him of road everyday, etc., etc.



I said I knew the road very well myself and told him that I made a point of driving it that very morning, taking odometer readings of where significant road features were relative to the incident. We’d a tete-a-tete regarding a “bend in the road” versus a “jink in the road”. He even brought up local landmarks like a derelict castle about a mile across the fields on the other side of the river. I was able to say how many clicks further along the road the incident happened.

Had I not gone to the trouble of taking a spin down that road that morning, clocking the distances, I don’t think “we” would have won.
 
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Drakon

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Not that I don't believe you but why would they make it up. Nothing in it for them.
In my case...

...this is what The State expressed, “do you really think this witness would make a statement...show up in court...

Probably case of mistaken identity.
...the defense solicitor suggested this too, especially as I hadn’t noted the car registration at the time of the incident.

How reliable would your memory be about an incident that allegedly happened 13 months prior to your eventual appearance as a witness in court,
...it was ten months and I can remember every detail with clarity, as if it happened yesterday.
 

Early Riser

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878
In my case...
...it was ten months and I can remember every detail with clarity, as if it happened yesterday.
Not in relation to your case specifically - but when we "remember" things we tend to remember them "with clarity". But that does not mean that we remember them accurately. Our memories are not photographs that we can take out at will - they are more like picture stories that are subject to revision as time goes by - even though we are unaware of this happening.

For example, I recall reading about soldiers describing events in wartime a number of years after they happened. Coincidentally, some of them had given written statements in the immediate aftermath of the incidents. There were often major discrepancies in detail between the two, even though the soldiers seemed to "remember" the incidents clearly. These were memory collections for historical purposes, not forensic, etc., so there was no self-interested motivation for the soldiers to change their stories.

Our memories tend to become broad brushstrokes with the details (unconsciously) revised and re-edited as time goes by. Everyone believes their own memories are accurate.
 

mathepac

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7,224
What was the driving “manoeuvre” anyway, or do you even know (yet)?
I know exactly what is alleged to have taken place, the mystery is where it allegedly happened, witness vs. prosecution confusion. It didn't happen and it couldn't have happened. I can say no more as it is key and sub judice and all them good fings my brief, Mr Rumpole, talks abaht, innit?
 

noproblem

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2,141
Someone should bring out a book on these type of incidents and another book on willls that looked ok to the lay mans eye but didn't work out as thought.
 
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