Counterfeit notes from an AIB ATM

R

r2d2

Guest
Hi all,

This happened about two years ago and I'm sorry I didn't take it to the media at the time but I'd be interested to know if it has happened to anybody else.

I took money out of an ATM in Tallaght, €100 or €120 if I recall correctly. Anyway, there were two fifty euro notes with it and that's what i still had when I went to pay for a pint and a couple of cokes for the kids that evening, the girl in the pub told me that it was a dud €50...I was mortified and quiclky (whilst getting a serious redner) produced the second €50 note to which she replied....that's dodgy too....I explained that I'd got them out of an ATM a couple of hours earlier and proceeded to pay the eight or nine euro by credit card.

Next morning I approached the AIB branch with the ATM in question. They took the two notes off me to check them. About ten minutes later they came back and told me that their head security people for ATM's said this was not possible.....When I told them that these two fifties CATEGORICALLY came from the ATM I was informed that I better be careful as that was accusing AIB of fraud. They 'confiscated' the two notes but not before I got them to make photocopies of both of them. I then went to the Gardai and reported AIB and re-told my story and asked them to document it.

I then involved my own bank (the Ulster Bank around the corner) to make representation on my behlaf to ensure AIB understood that I was 'of good character'. Eventually the AIB made a lodgement of €100 into my UB A/C....No notification of same, no explanation, no apology ! Writing this I can't believe I didn't push them significantly further on this !! I now find myself with 100k to invest and AIB will be getting diddly squat of my business....

Has this ever happened to anyone else....?

r2d2
 
No way, can't believe you got them from an ATM! I never got them from an ATM, but I remember getting one from the shop that I went to for years for lunch(Londis beside the Abberley, since you know Tallaght), when I brought it back they practically accused me of being a liar and insisted that it would have never come to them. Eventually they switched it for me, and then I switched shops for lunch!

Will be interested in other experiences on this. Good thread r2d2.
 
Hi Roxy....

As I said to the bank and the Gardai, the only way that those notes didn't come from the ATM was if someone pickpoceted my wallet, switched the two good notes with two bad notes, left my credit cards there and slipped the wallet back into my jeans...eh, I don't think so !!.....I ended up in The Scholars, my kids were mortified and everytime I went in there after that I kept thinking the same bar woman was looking at me like I was dodgy !

r2d2
 
No chance...She was right in front of me and didn't even turn away...It seemed so obvious to her that they were dud....In fairness, when I looked at the first one it looked as if it had been washed in the pocket of your jeans but the second one looked okay.....Before I went to the bank with them I showed them to a mate who used to work in the BOI, he took out a fifty and compared...My ones weren't even the right size ( a comment Mrs d2 makes regularly)
 
I used to work in branch banking and was for a while working in the cash dept.
Initially we only used new notes and the reason for this was because of the risk of dud notes. Mgmt was aware that they would have been leaving themselves open to an accusation of dispensing dud notes (accidentally) and they would have no come back if they dispensed used notes (unless the cash team went through and visually checked every single note in the ATM.
After a while I suppose it was costing too much to do this so they started stocking the maching with used notes - there was never a problem but I suppose they reasoned that the chances of it actually happening /v/ the cost of stocking new notes all the time weighed in favour of the former of the two.
 
I have heard of it happening with store located and run ATMs as the store uses its' own money to fill them.

I notice that my local Dunnes Stores checks every note tendered without exception when paying at the tills. Pity other stores are not so careful.
 
years ago I got a dud £5.00 (punts) in my change from the post office. I went round the corner to buy something in the local supermarket (quinnsworth at the time) and they refused the £5.00 note and threatened to confiscate it and said it was there policy to confiscate all dud notes and report it to the Gardai. I stated that I had just received it from the post office and convinced them to give it back to me. I went back to the post office where I had a stand up argument with the cashier who declared that they check all notes and can stand over all their notes. When I stated that she didnt check the tenner I had bought the stamps with she backed down a bit and I eventually after an embarassing rant with a growing queue of impatient customers behind me I got a new 5.00 note. But I was intially made feel like a criminal and liar and only I have a hard neck and stood my ground I was getting nowhere fast.........its a tough one. There should be better checks and controls but when one slips through its impossible to prove!!
 
The problem with ATMs, especially ones on the street, is that I generally slip the notes into my wallet as quickly as possible so I'm not flashing cash around for all and sundry to steal.

What should we do? - Inspect notes in the middle of the high street?
 
No but surely the banks should check them when they receive them, or before they are put into the atms.
 
What's all this about the bank and retailers confiscating money that they suspect of being dodgy.

They have no right to do this. They can either accept the notes or refuse them. They may also inform the Gardai but they have no right to confiscate them. Who do they think they are..

Got a dodgy tenner myself a few years ago at the Fairyhouse Market when I was paying for parking (which I really object to, why should I have to pay to enter a market). Anyway, I passed the tenner off to some guy who was selling cigarettes (illegally I assume).

If I brought the note to the Gardai they would have confiscated it.
 
AFAIK, retailers etc. have a duty under the law to confiscate counterfeit money and pass to Gardai. Am open to correction, but will try & find ref. to it in statute.
 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CRIMINAL JUSTICE (THEFT AND FRAUD OFFENCES) ACT, 2001 SECTION 39
[/FONT] Measures to detect counterfeiting. 39.—(1) In this section—
"designated body" means:
            • (a) a body licensed to carry on banking business under the , or authorised to carry on such business under the ACC Bank Acts, 1978 to 2001, or regulations under the European Communities Acts, 1972 to 1998,
            • (b) a building society within the meaning of the ,
            • (c) a trustee savings bank within the meaning of the Trustee Savings Banks Acts, 1989 and 2001,
            • (d) An Post,
            • (e) a credit union within the meaning of the ,
            • (f) a person or body authorised under the , to provide bureau de change business,
            • (g) a person who in the course of business provides a service of sorting and redistributing currency notes or coins,
            • (h) any other person or body—
                • (i) whose business consists of or includes the provision of services involving the acceptance, exchange, transfer or holding of money for or on behalf of other persons or bodies, and
                • (ii) who is designated for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Minister after consultation with the Minister for Finance; and
"recognised code of practice" means a code of practice drawn up for the purposes of this section—
            • (a) by a designated body or class of designated bodies and approved by the Central Bank of Ireland, or
            • (b) by the Central Bank of Ireland for a designated body or class of such bodies.
(2) A designated body shall—
            • (a) withdraw from circulation any notes or coins received by it or tendered to it which it knows or suspects to be counterfeit, and
            • (b) transmit them as soon as possible to the Central Bank of Ireland with such information as to the time, location and circumstances of their receipt as may be available.
(3) Counterfeit or suspect currency notes or coins may be transmitted to the Garda Síochána under subsection (2) in accordance with a recognised code of practice.
(4) A recognised code of practice may include provision for—
            • (a) procedures to be followed by directors or other officers and employees of a designated body in the conduct of its business,
            • (b) instructions to them on the application of this section,
            • (c) standards of training in the identification of counterfeit notes and coins,
            • (d) procedures to be followed by them on perceiving or suspecting that currency notes or coins are counterfeit,
            • (e) different such procedures to be followed in respect of different currencies,
            • (f) the retention of documents required for the purposes of criminal proceedings.
(5) Without prejudice to , a designated body which contravenes a provision of subsection (2) of this section or who provides false or misleading information on matters referred to in those subsections is guilty of an offence under this section and liable—
            • (a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, or
            • (b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.
(6) It shall be a defence in proceedings for an offence under this section—
            • (a) for a designated body to show—
                • (i) that it had established procedures to enable this section to be complied with, or
                • (ii) that it had complied with the relevant provisions of a recognised code of practice,
            • and
            • (b) for a person employed by a designated body to show that he or she transmitted the currency notes or coins concerned, or gave the relevant information, to another person in accordance with an internal reporting procedure or a recognised code of practice.
(7) Where a designated body, a director, other officer or employee of the body—
            • (a) discloses in good faith to a member of the Garda Síochána or any person concerned in the investigation or prosecution of an offence under this Part a suspicion that a currency note or coin is counterfeit or any matter on which such a suspicion is based, or
            • (b) otherwise complies in good faith with subsection (2) or with a recognised code of practice,
such disclosure or compliance shall not be treated as a breach of any restriction imposed by statute or otherwise on the disclosure of information or involve the person or body making the disclosure in liability in any proceedings.
(8) Every regulation made under this section shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon as may be after it is made and, if a resolution annulling it is passed by either such House within the next 21 days on which that House has sat after the regulation is laid before it, the regulation shall be annulled accordingly, but without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done under it.
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