Considering a career in tax advisory - advice needed

[Tax Curious]

I'm interested in advice on doing a Chartered Tax Adviser (CTA) qualification with the Irish Tax Institute (ITI).

I'm 41 and I started out in a large public sector body over a decade ago doing pretty technical work which I enjoyed. Over the years I've moved toward more generic project management in an area I don't have a natural interest in. I'm stuck in a certain grade which will top out about €90k which gives a comfortable life but I am tired of the work and the organisation and I don't want to be sitting in the same chair in 25 years. As such I am thinking about other options.

I have a natural interest in tax, probably more from the policy side as I've never had exposure to practice. So I'm wondering whether doing the chartered tax advisor (CTA) course with the Irish Tax Institute would open up a career in tax advisory. I look online and there seem to be plenty of job openings but I don't know anyone who does it or where to start.

I feel if I don't change career now it'll never happen. I know a short-term pay cut would be inevitable but I'd like to be earning something like €80k again by my late 40s. Long run I'd like self-employment as an option and my current job just isn't setting me up for that. I have a spouse with a part-time job and three kids but I think the CTA workload would be manageable. I live in Dublin close to the city centre and this seems to be where the bulk of the jobs are.

By way of background I have an undergraduate degree in economics and a master's degree in finance. I know the basics of accounting but have never done any audit/accountancy qualification and I don't want to. I have pretty good data science skills which I know is increasingly important in audit and advisory. I've always preferred technical roles but have often been put in "front-of-house" positions as I seem to be able to communicate well.

I'm not looking for advice on whether this is the right thing for me personally (I'm not even convinced myself!) but the feasibility of a career change.

My questions:

-Would a CTA qualification easily open up a job in tax advisory?
-Would I need to complete all three CTA modules before being taken on by an employer?
-What are early and mid career salary expectations?
-How "specific" do jobs tend to be? If I want to end up in corporate tax do I need to start in corporate tax?
-How is the job market at the moment?
-I am not a typical "graduate" entry, so how best to approach employers?

I know these are a lot of questions and no one will know all the answers but any tips or pointers welcome!

 

[Steven Barrett]

A mate of mine did the tax exams a number of years ago and then went looking for a tax job. He was congratulated on getting the qualifications but it was pointed out to him that he had zero experience in practice so his starting salary wouldn't be far off the beginning salary (apprentice rates, it's very low). He had a mortgage and three kids at this stage so he stayed in his current job.

If you are going to make the leap, make sure you do all the research and have a full understanding of the income you will be on. Accountancy, tax and law pay their apprentices very low salaries so it is difficult for people with families and mortgages to make the switch, especially if they are the main earner.

Once you qualify, there will be a big increase in salary but that is 3/4 years away.

 

[Jim2007]

Well from what I remember the CTA is generally an additional qualification take on by accountants, the legal profession and tax officers rather than being the primary qualification for earning an income. And you will have no experience versus all of these, so landing a job my not be as easy as you expect.

When comes to being self employed, the big issue is that you won't be in a position to do the full job for most clients other than those just needing a tax return submitted. If accounts are needed you are going to have to refer your client to accountants to complete the work and if it tax planning requiring legal documents you'll need to refer them to the legal profession. And as both of these professions are capable of doing what you do, chances are the clients may not come back.

I don't see this as a great way to change careers.

 

[nest egg]

Just wanted to wish you luck with your decision. I'm of a similar age, and weighing up the pros and cons of making a career change myself, so your post really struck a chord.

 

[Tax Curious]

Thanks for all the advice, it's really appreciated.

I've been looking through LinkedIn profiles and it seems indeed that CTA is something done by people who already have Law Society or ACCA qualifications. I have to think about how useful it would be standalone. I'm not at a point where I want to take on a law or accountancy qualification as I don't want to practice as either.

Regarding tax I'm wondering as well if I could leverage data science and financial markets expertise that I already have. Through work I have some experience of valuation for transfer pricing, bank capital, etc, and I know there is tax advice and tax planning involved in all of this.

This seems pretty specialist though and I would imagine hard to walk right into. Would it usually mean an apprenticeship doing other types of tax work first alongside CTA exams?

 

[RonnieShinbal88]

You specifically stated you weren't asking for advice on this being a good idea personally but have to ask if you have factored in pension, you would be walking away from a defined benefit half final salary (45k) pension? I'd look at what is the cost of replacing that.

Over and above the salary, it's likely to be a big factor financially.
I've no idea on whats available but if you could find a role within the public sector that appealed more than your current one it would keep the pension.

 

[Jim Stafford]

A mate of mine did the tax exams a number of years ago and then went looking for a tax job. He was congratulated on getting the qualifications but it was pointed out to him that he had zero experience in practice so his starting salary wouldn't be far off the beginning salary (apprentice rates, it's very low)

I would endorse Steven's views.

Accountancy firms require staff with practical experience of dealing with AML, engagement letters, ROS, preparing tax computations, liaising with auditors, invoicing clients etc

Jim Stafford

 

[Jim2007]

You specifically stated you weren't asking for advice on this being a good idea personally but have to ask if you have factored in pension, you would be walking away from a defined benefit half final salary (45k) pension? I'd look at what is the cost of replacing that.

Over and above the salary, it's likely to be a big factor financially.
I've no idea on whats available but if you could find a role within the public sector that appealed more than your current one it would keep the pension.

Failing to live the life you want to live for the same of a pension in old age is not much of a life.

 

[RonnieShinbal88]

Failing to live the life you want to live for the same of a pension in old age is not much of a life.

Absolutely, only mentioned it on the off chance OP hadn't considered the pension value.

Re-training and learning and being challenged in your work is important, you don't always have to throw out the baby with the bath water if you are looking for a new challenge.

 

[Tax Curious]

You specifically stated you weren't asking for advice on this being a good idea personally but have to ask if you have factored in pension, you would be walking away from a defined benefit half final salary (45k) pension? I'd look at what is the cost of replacing that.

It's a good point but we're financially comfortable and could take the salary hit. I just don't want to be doing something I don't like forever because the salary is comfortable. I don't want to replace it with something equally bad but for less pay either!

I've no idea on whats available but if you could find a role within the public sector that appealed more than your current one it would keep the pension.

In my situation transfer isn't really possible for a lot of reasons. I am also a bit tired of the public sector mindset having spent my whole career in it.

 

[RonnieShinbal88]

. I don't want to replace it with something equally bad but for less pay either!

That's the risk, but I have been there in terms of being sick of a job and changed careers, ironically the other direction you are considering private to public!

It sounds like you are doing all the right things in getting advice from people in the area you are going into.

 

[Steven Barrett]

Are you able to transfer to another public service body or the civil service? That way you can hang onto your pension while pursuing something different. The public service is so big and there are so many different opportunities that you can pursue a lot of different careers under the one (large) employer.

Or do you want to be a client facing accountant/ tax advisor? Which has its pressures to. Working in practice, the focus is always on generating fees and recovery rates. There is a massive commercial side to it.

 

[Salvadore]

In addition to any financial implications, consider also the psychological aspects of any such change.

Starting off, you’re likely to be bunched with people half your age, reporting to someone who may be much younger than you are. If you’ve come from a position in which your skills have been developed and valued and you’ve acquired some status, this can an issue.

You’d really need to have identified the longer term benefits of a career change, measured against the significant short term upheaval.

 

[Tax Curious]

Are you able to transfer to another public service body or the civil service? That way you can hang onto your pension while pursuing something different.

I've investigated this at length but my contractual situation is unusual so not possible.

Starting off, you’re likely to be bunched with people half your age, reporting to someone who may be much younger than you are.

That's very true. A while ago I gave up on ambitions of professional status so this wouldn't bother me so much. At this point I'd just like interesting work on a wage that's above average but not stratospheric. In my 20s I worked with people in their 40s changing career and quite often they were much more useful to management as they had the soft skills that a typical graduate didn't.

 

[Horatio]

I'm interested in advice on doing a Chartered Tax Adviser (CTA) qualification with the Irish Tax Institute (ITI).

I'm 41 and I started out in a large public sector body over a decade ago doing pretty technical work which I enjoyed. Over the years I've moved toward more generic project management in an area I don't have a natural interest in. I'm stuck in a certain grade which will top out about €90k which gives a comfortable life but I am tired of the work and the organisation and I don't want to be sitting in the same chair in 25 years. As such I am thinking about other options.

I have a natural interest in tax, probably more from the policy side as I've never had exposure to practice. So I'm wondering whether doing the chartered tax advisor (CTA) course with the Irish Tax Institute would open up a career in tax advisory. I look online and there seem to be plenty of job openings but I don't know anyone who does it or where to start.

I feel if I don't change career now it'll never happen. I know a short-term pay cut would be inevitable but I'd like to be earning something like €80k again by my late 40s. Long run I'd like self-employment as an option and my current job just isn't setting me up for that. I have a spouse with a part-time job and three kids but I think the CTA workload would be manageable. I live in Dublin close to the city centre and this seems to be where the bulk of the jobs are.

By way of background I have an undergraduate degree in economics and a master's degree in finance. I know the basics of accounting but have never done any audit/accountancy qualification and I don't want to. I have pretty good data science skills which I know is increasingly important in audit and advisory. I've always preferred technical roles but have often been put in "front-of-house" positions as I seem to be able to communicate well.

I'm not looking for advice on whether this is the right thing for me personally (I'm not even convinced myself!) but the feasibility of a career change.

My questions:

-Would a CTA qualification easily open up a job in tax advisory?
-Would I need to complete all three CTA modules before being taken on by an employer?
-What are early and mid career salary expectations?
-How "specific" do jobs tend to be? If I want to end up in corporate tax do I need to start in corporate tax?
-How is the job market at the moment?
-I am not a typical "graduate" entry, so how best to approach employers?

I know these are a lot of questions and no one will know all the answers but any tips or pointers welcome!

I've mentioned this on AAM before but I reckon there is a market for training Tax Self Assessment & submission in Ireland. Pair that training service with a Self service enabling electronic platform & charge a yearly subscription. I reckon I'd pay for that.

Best of luck in your decision & path & hats off for looking in depth before you leap.

 

[Tax Curious]

I've decided to go down a different route than tax and so far things seem promising with a few interviews set up.

I haven't been in the job market for a long time and I've been surprised at how easy I've got interviews with completely cold applications.

Thanks to everyone for the advice on this and I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Tax Curious]

I've decided to go down a different route than tax and so far things seem promising with a few interviews set up.

Just to close things off I've found a new job and am starting next month.

I hadn't been on the job market in 15 years and was AMAZED at how much there is out there right now. I got three job offers from about 15 applications, almost all of them "cold" with no connection. I had random recruiters get in touch via LinkedIn even.

One of the offers was actually in tax (transfer pricing) as I have some transferrable skills and on the promise of starting CTA, but there was something else in another field with better prospects that I've gone for.

Thanks once again to everyone for the advice - it really helped!

 

[Salvadore]

Just to close things off I've found a new job and am starting next month.

I hadn't been on the job market in 15 years and was AMAZED at how much there is out there right now. I got three job offers from about 15 applications, almost all of them "cold" with no connection. I had random recruiters get in touch via LinkedIn even.

One of the offers was actually in tax (transfer pricing) as I have some transferrable skills and on the promise of starting CTA, but there was something else in another field with better prospects that I've gone for.

Thanks once again to everyone for the advice - it really helped!

Thanks for coming back with the outcome. It’s always good to hear how these things conclude.

You seem very happy with the outcome. From a people perspective, I’d be very interested to know more about the journey from your original CTA ambition to where you are now.

 

[Tax Curious]

From a people perspective, I’d be very interested to know more about the journey from your original CTA ambition to where you are now.

To be honest a lot of of it is resigning myself to the fact that I'll never be a senior manager in current organisation and realising that it's actually a good thing.

I'm maybe mid-way through a working life and I want a job that is interesting, relatively technical, and doesn't involve much management of people. The new role I'm starting in should give me that and I was at a dead end in my old employer.

I also had a bad experience with bullying/harrassment by a manager over about 18 months or so. It was weird in that I kept telling myself I wasn't being bullied at the time but with hindsight it was completely obvious. There was a grievance procedure I could have used but I didn't. It would have just would have left me more stressed and sucked innocent colleagues into an investigation so another reason for a new start. Also a lesson learned to stop the same kind of circumstances happening which would allow workplace bullying in future.