We just received permission notice from county council for construction of dwelling on a serviced site in an estate. One of the conditions is a requirement to pay €18,000 contributions towards the costs of building public infrastructure etc which has to be paid before building commences. I was wondering if this is usual. They mention the developer, is this the overall developer I wonder. Would be grateful for any feedback.Thanks.
Condition on Planning
- Thread starter Rico
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County council contributions are not uncommon. However your solicitor will need to clarify if this condition is applicable to either the developer or to you.
Even a phone call to the council panning authority could clear that up. Just mention the planning application number to them.
ninsaga
Even a phone call to the council panning authority could clear that up. Just mention the planning application number to them.
ninsaga
aislingkelly
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Yes the development charges are normal and they say they must be paid before construction but i wouldnt worry to much about it,we must pay E10,000 and we are ready to pour the floors on friday and still havnt paid it yet.
this sounds expensive. check carefully the local authority's website for development planning contributions and rates. for example dunlaoghaire charge about 12500 for contributions for a house. There is no escaping contributions once the planning permission is set. They will get you sooner or later. Provided that the appeals period of one month for this planning permission is still in effect, you may appeal the contributions set by the local authority if you genuinely think they have miscalculated the figure. The appeal decision will take between four and eight months and they will decide if it is fair or not. The caveat for appeals is that there is a risk. There is an outside chance that an bord pleanala will look at your planning permision from scratch and refuse the development all together should they feel necessary
I think that figure is fairly consistent with what Kildare Co. Co charge. It does depend on the size of the house but I think that the ceiling is set at 2,500 sq ft so it doesnt increase once you go above that.
If you are going to be using all the services - ie public water mains, public sewarage treatment etc then I don't think you will have any argument. But if for instance you have a private septic tank mayb you could argue that the amount should be reduced as you are not using the public service.
Did you not know about this prior to applying for pp? it was brought in a few years ago & afaik every county operates this, just with different levels to pay.
If you are going to be using all the services - ie public water mains, public sewarage treatment etc then I don't think you will have any argument. But if for instance you have a private septic tank mayb you could argue that the amount should be reduced as you are not using the public service.
Did you not know about this prior to applying for pp? it was brought in a few years ago & afaik every county operates this, just with different levels to pay.
aislingkelly
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Hi back again with word back from my county council today,I applied for a house that was 3400sq ft and after been granted planning i decided to downsize the house to 2360sq ft as i thought it was too big anyway for the 3400sq ft house the contribution fees were 11,500euro,then when i asked if it was ok to build the smaller house on the premission we got they said yes as long as there was no material change and we were goin smaller then we original there would be no problem,they said they would sort out the contribution fees and send out a new invoice with the lower figure on it, so today i received a call from my plnner and he said he spoke with the senior planner about the situation and said that if we wanted the contribution fees lowered we would have to go through the whole planning process again which would take another couple of months (last time it was 6months) or we could build the smaller house no bother but we would have to pay the fees for the bigger house???the difference we would have to pay for no reason is 3800euro after they telling us when we got planning there wouldnt be a problem, what i want to find out is if there is anything i can do about this as i dont see why we should 1.have to go through planning again,2.pay them for a house 3400sq ft when we are only building a 2360sq ft and 3.they said at the start it wouldnt be a problem,the only thing is i dont have that in writing.Please someone help me...
The position is that the development contribution is a condition on the planning permission and the Planning Authority cant alter that without a new application being made. Leaving aside the development contributions I think you are getting away very handy if they are going to allow you build a smaller house without having to reapply for permission. Most planning Authorities will only give written approval for "minor amendments"
I dealt with a case recently where a client of mine got his permission through to build a house in a rural area. He proposed to take the domestic water from a well on the farm but after he got his planning through he changed his mind and decided that he would connect to the mains water supply which was about 500 metres from the site. He made an application the sanitary services dept. to connect to the mains water but they refused him as a well had been shown on his planning application. He offered to pay the development contribution in respect of the water but again this was rejected as it was not a condition on his planning permission.
At the end of the day he was told that if he wanted to connect to the mains water he would need to reapply for planning permission and specifying that he proposed to connect to the mains supply in the application.
I dealt with a case recently where a client of mine got his permission through to build a house in a rural area. He proposed to take the domestic water from a well on the farm but after he got his planning through he changed his mind and decided that he would connect to the mains water supply which was about 500 metres from the site. He made an application the sanitary services dept. to connect to the mains water but they refused him as a well had been shown on his planning application. He offered to pay the development contribution in respect of the water but again this was rejected as it was not a condition on his planning permission.
At the end of the day he was told that if he wanted to connect to the mains water he would need to reapply for planning permission and specifying that he proposed to connect to the mains supply in the application.
In my view it's pretty difficult to downsize a 3400 sq ft design by 1000 sq ft without substantial design changes and yes, you're lucky if they don't require a new application. If it's difficult to secure PP in your area I don't think it would be worth the stress of a new application for a savings of only 3800 less the cost of the new application.
Take note that these fee's payable to the council are always up for review. A friend of mine had to pay 12,000.00. He submitted his commencement notice to the council, they knew when he was starting his build. Ater he opened the site, cleared the site and dug foundations he went to coucil to pay fee's and was told that the original amount (12,000.00) had gone up an extra 300.00 in the space of a month. He was told to read over his conditons and when doing so seen that it states that "these fee's if not paid by end of year are up for review" . I paid my fee's to council on the date I had on my commencement notice. I know of one case where the person who built a house two years ago still has'nt paid his fee's yet??? Wonder what will happen there? The council have never made contact with him about this matter??
aislingkelly
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I understand that its a condition but at the end of the day the 3800 is better in my pocket then it is in theirs,i just think if that building a smaller house doesnt effect the application then either should the development charges.
Carebear how did ur friend have his water and sewer connected?I thought the sanitery dept wouldnt connect you unless those fees were paid??
Carebear how did ur friend have his water and sewer connected?I thought the sanitery dept wouldnt connect you unless those fees were paid??
tecnically speaking, downsizing by 1000sq.ft. is a material change to the original planning permission and your changes therefore require planning. A note of caution, when you are speaking to planners generally, you are unwittingly having "off the record chats" with people who do not have any authority. People who rely on these "off the record chats" often find themselves in trouble, through no fault of their own.
Well that is exactly the point. They are prepared to allow you (probably by way of a minor amendment) build a smaller house but based on the permission that was originally granted and obviously with all associated conditions. They expect you to take up the benefit of that permission and comply with the attached conditions.
Legally, a Planning Authority cant change a condition on a permission. You may find that they will be approachable to certain points.
I would enquire if there would in fact be any difference in the level of contributions payable in respect of the 2 different size houses you mentioned.
I know in Donegal you would still pay the same but it does vary around the country
aislingkelly
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Thats what im talking about the differene we would be paying is 3800euro which i consider to be a lot of money!!
Aisling
I think moylans made a very good point. Do not rely on the word of the planners - get your own architect/engineer to advise on the reduced size. I don't think they will be able to certify compliance with the planning which will render the property unsaleable and unmortgageable.
mf
I think moylans made a very good point. Do not rely on the word of the planners - get your own architect/engineer to advise on the reduced size. I don't think they will be able to certify compliance with the planning which will render the property unsaleable and unmortgageable.
mf
Also, your smaller house is going to require a new design and drawings, and unless you're building to an off-the-shelf design this could involve quite a bit of additional architect expenses. The cost of a new planning application might be very small in the greater scheme of things.