Coercive Control of Father by Brother??

J

jan

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Hi,

Not sure if this is the right forum but anyway... long story.. Dad 83.. brother 47.. looks like said Bro is coercively controlling my Dad.. Dad's mind is 100% but Dad is is a farmer and this brother is the only farmer in the house so they have a close relationship.. but Dad is v unwell.. long story.. but basically he needs assistance round the clock - he is in a bit of denial about this.. nursing home is the only solution (for now, due to a whole load of reasons).. but this brother is trying to talk Dad out of this as he knows it will use money Dad has saved to Will to us.. (there is sooo much more to this story).. but my query is, does anyone know where I can get advice on this?

This Brother is dangerous - the only reason my Dad is unwell is cos he got Covid from this Brother (turns out he had covid and would not get tested even though Dad asked him to - Mum has already passed away as a result of this - if Dad goes home it will only be a matter of time before something else bad happens to him)..

I live 5 hrs away and have my own family commitments so i can't move back to the family home but I am doing all I can to help; on the phone constantly to the health professionals and up and down the motorway as often as I can... I can't even grieve my Mum's passing now as I am so focused on Dad.. dunno how I will be in the future.. taking it as a day at a time for the moment.. any advice?

This is a never ending nightmare.. my folks would have been 50 yrs married 8 days before Mum died.. and they were like 2 peas in a pod.. thing is, Dad is old school and doesn't like the idea of a nursing home.. but he 100% needs to go to 1.. he has a progressive terminal condition and covid has played havoc with is body but mind still 100% and he is a v sharp guy.. point is, this Bro does not have Dad's interests at heart.. but he is telling Dad what he wants to hear - for his own benefits.. (Dad wants to go home - crazy but his denial is epic) - it is all about money for this Brother.. the rest of us don't want a penny from Dad - we just want him to be ok.. like I said, this is a nightmare.. so any information on how we might get advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

TIA
 
If your dad is 100percent mentally then let him stay at home. Hell be much happier. If theres plenty of money get in home helps _ as many as needed. Anyone would be better off out of a nursing home.
 
jan said:
does anyone know where I can get advice on this?
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Speak to the social worker in the hospital your dad is in outlining your concerns, he / she can arrange an assessment to determine if you dad is good enough to live at home on discharge from hospital.

If your dad goes home, speak to the public health nurse in the local HSE centre. The PHN can visit your dad at home and assess his suitability for home living and advise accordingly.
 
bear in mind that there are a lot of supports in relation to getting home helps and other services through the state that can assist your father and make his life easier if he wants to go home.

You could also do worse then start investigating the fair deal scheme to understand properly, what the impact on your fathers finances would be if he were to go into a nursing home.
 
blanketyblank said:
If your dad is 100percent mentally then let him stay at home. Hell be much happier. If theres plenty of money get in home helps _ as many as needed. Anyone would be better off out of a nursing home.
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Where a person needs constant care, then their own home may not be the place for them. The "home helps" will not be there 24 hours a day. The scope of what they can do is limited.

@jan Do your research in relation to any possible home care locations - some are fantastic, others are not so. Arrange a visit & walk around the area if you can and also, if you are willing, talk to anyone visiting. It's a very tough decision to make but if your father needs 24 hour care, then a care home may be the best place for him.

Seems that there are more than you & your brother in the family, so talk to your other sibling(s) - get their input and then talk to your Dad. Take the emotion out of it & just talk to him about it - the benefits of such, the care versus home etc... Best of luck with things Jan - it's not an easy time for any of you.
 
I can see where you are coming from but if your Dad wants to stay at home and is mentally competent to make that decision and assuming his needs can somewhat be met there then that is what I would do. It complicates it of course that you don't trust your brother but if your father is anything like mine was he would willingly have forfeited the couple of extra years a nursing home might have bought him rather than leave his own house and being able to look out on his garden every day.

Your father as a farmer I am sure will not want to leave that either even if limited in what he can do.

Every time my father had a trip to hospital he got the nursing home talk from doctors, this would have been an absolute last resort for him and while he was at danger of a fall at home etc one doctor at least understood and said her mother was the same and would rather take her chances at home and shorten her life than live out what was left of it in a nursing home, she agreed to make a note on his file that it was not to be mentioned to him again.

Having said all that sometimes people get to a stage that even with the best will in the world and as much home help as you can get it is impossible to care for them at home and the last resort is reached, his doc can arrange a PHN visit and they will assess and you can take it from there.
 
Jan,
You might well think your brother is doing an injustice to your Dad, but think more about it if you can. Your brother knows your dad (and his dad too), he'll probably inherit the farm, and more than likely they both have an understanding of exactly what's involved at this sad time.

Like you say, your father's illness is terminal and he certainly comes across as not wanting to go into a nursing home. You might well say it would be better for him, but he doesn't want that, and there's a huge amount of people who know what's coming down the road. He's one of them, sees the time he has left and wants to spend it at home. His son sees that too, wants it as well, listens to his father, agrees with him and regardless of what you might think, and want for your Dad, they have a want and need too.

Don't underestimate the need older people have in wanting to be at home when ill, it's everything to them. Don't fall out over this, forget your suspicions, give your Dad what he wants. He won't be asking you for anything else and medicine will be given to make life bearable for him when he needs it most. It's all up to you actually and i'm really sorry for how you feel, but?
 
thanks for all the replies.. you know - the story is too long - there is so much more to this but I would be ashamed to reveal everything here on line.. but I assure you that my bro does not give a dam about my Dad.. after all Dad got Covid from this bro would not get tested - Mum got Covid from Dad.. Mum passed away.. this bro has lost his licence due to drink driving.. the night Dad became unwell he had fallen and got up (Dad) - this bro knew about this but still asked Dad to bring him to the pub.. Dad came home - fell again - could no get up.. other bro found him on the floor.. called ambulance then turned out to have Covid.. so yes - this bro does NOT care about Dad.. Dad been in hospital 1 mth and only visited him yesterday!
Like i said, a lot more to this - this brother is a nightmare.. has made my other brother's life a living hell.. he has also let the farm go to pot!
I know Dad wants to be at home but the house is not set up for him. A lot of denial on Dads part - being telling him to prep for old age for a long time now and didn't wanna hear it.
Fair deal is sorted for Dad.. the plan is that he goes to a nursing home and my other bro will work on getting the house more suitable for Dad so he could go home in time to come.
Dad is 100% mentally but for some reason he cannot see thru this crazy brother. Anyway the reason I posted here was to ask who we can get advice from with regards to coercive control?? Not wether or not my Dad can go home - the medical professionals have said that Dad needs assistance 24/7.. we live in the middle of no where... house is 2 story.. no toilet down stairs.. not a lot of money in the bank.. HSE will only give 1.5 hrs home help/day.
 
I can imagine that this causing you and your brother a lot of stress. The HSE has an adult safeguarding service. [broken link removed]

Best of luck with this.
 
twofor1 said:
Speak to the social worker in the hospital your dad is in outlining your concerns, he / she can arrange an assessment to determine if you dad is good enough to live at home on discharge from hospital.

If your dad goes home, speak to the public health nurse in the local HSE centre. The PHN can visit your dad at home and assess his suitability for home living and advise accordingly.
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This is sound advice.

If your father is 83 and living at home, you should apply to the HSE for help under the Home Support Service. The HSE will perform a Care Needs Assessment to determine the support service needed. You should raise the concerns you have concerning your father when the assessment is beiing carried out.
 
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jan said:
thanks for all the replies.. you know - the story is too long - there is so much more to this but I would be ashamed to reveal everything here on line.. but I assure you that my bro does not give a dam about my Dad.. after all Dad got Covid from this bro would not get tested - Mum got Covid from Dad.. Mum passed away.. this bro has lost his licence due to drink driving.. the night Dad became unwell he had fallen and got up (Dad) - this bro knew about this but still asked Dad to bring him to the pub.. Dad came home - fell again - could no get up.. other bro found him on the floor.. called ambulance then turned out to have Covid.. so yes - this bro does NOT care about Dad.. Dad been in hospital 1 mth and only visited him yesterday!
Like i said, a lot more to this - this brother is a nightmare.. has made my other brother's life a living hell.. he has also let the farm go to pot!
I know Dad wants to be at home but the house is not set up for him. A lot of denial on Dads part - being telling him to prep for old age for a long time now and didn't wanna hear it.
Fair deal is sorted for Dad.. the plan is that he goes to a nursing home and my other bro will work on getting the house more suitable for Dad so he could go home in time to come.
Dad is 100% mentally but for some reason he cannot see thru this crazy brother. Anyway the reason I posted here was to ask who we can get advice from with regards to coercive control?? Not wether or not my Dad can go home - the medical professionals have said that Dad needs assistance 24/7.. we live in the middle of no where... house is 2 story.. no toilet down stairs.. not a lot of money in the bank.. HSE will only give 1.5 hrs home help/day.
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That's terrible, very sorry to hear all of this. Be careful not to identify yourself with information on posts. Going on the above, Slim on Post No 10 was good advice
 
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blanketyblank said:
...Anyone would be better off out of a nursing home.
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I don't agree. In a decent nursing home (they do exist) often people can have better quality of life than at home.

Especially when the home isn't suitable. No stair lift, no accessible toilets, not backup in case of shortage of care workers or family members. People can be lonely at home, if there's no one there most of the day.

Not that it will suit everyone, of course not. Some will prefer to be at home.
 
jan said:
Dad is 100% mentally but for some reason he cannot see thru this crazy brother. Anyway the reason I posted here was to ask who we can get advice from with regards to coercive control??
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What you describe would suggest one of your brothers does not give a damn about your dad and is not a very nice or caring person.

You, one of your brothers and all the healthcare professionals think a nursing home would be best for your dad. The other brother and your 100% mentally fit dad disagree.

I see a difference of opinion but not coercive control.

A difficult situation.
 
PMU said:
This is sound advice.

If your father is 83 and living at home, you should apply to the HSE for help under the Home Support Service. The HSE will perform a Care Needs Assessment to determine the support service needed. You should raise the concerns you have concerning your father when the assessment is beiing carried out.
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no social worker in the hospital and the liaison officer was no help at all.. the hospital is a nightmare.. I have had to talk to the ADONs etc - long story.. this is all a never ending nightmare... anyway.. based on what we told the staff they agreed that home would not be viable for Dad right now so the discharge co ordinator has helped the civil bro to get fair deal sorted.. (visiting ban in place now again due to Covid outbreak).. Bro is working on applying for grant from HSE to get work done on the house and all that.. I guess someone will be out to assess whats needed etc..

anyway - my query was about coercive control - so thanks Slim.. will get on to that now..

And thanks to those of you who have expressed sympathy - thank you..
 
Another problem is getting work on the house, or a place in a nursing home takes months and months. Then getting work on the house doesn't help with home help and personal care at home. You have to weigh up the pros and cons of both approaches.

If there is no Family at home that can help, then you've all made that decision already. So its just about will someone hate a nursing or prefer to have all the difficulties mostly on their own at home. No one can advise on that without knowing the person.

The other side of this is if there are no children around helping out. The whys don't matter.
For me the tipping point becomes when they are stressed and upset, fearful of being on their own. All the time at home.
 
In terms of coercive control, my understanding is the recent legislation making coercive control a crime very specifically defined it as a form of intimate partner violence - so, a spouse/partner/ex-partner, rather than a parent/child. There are other forms of domestic violence legislation/protection that can apply in a parent/child situation, like a safety order or barring order. But again, you're coming up against the issue of capacity. If your father has capacity, and doesn't recognise an issue with this brother, you will not be able to apply for these on his behalf. It sounds like there's no way he's anywhere near trying to get a safety order or barring order against your brother, so it wouldn't be helpful to pursue that.

I'm actually curious as to whether he is going along with the fair deal application, because again, if he has been judged to have capacity I don't think that's something you can do without his consent.

Its really difficult, but its similar to the frustrations of family witnessing a domestic violence relationship: if the injured party doesn't want to take any action it can be almost impossible to do anything about it. I think your best bet is to go down the safeguarding/vulnerable adult route, and see if agreement can be reached about financial power of attorney and similar while your father has capacity so things don't deteriorate further. It is a shame the social workers in the hospital aren't helpful. I think if you can make a fuss andtry to get occupational therapy assessments, etc etc, on his home before he is discharged, and make it clear there are issues and he is a vulnerable adult that is really your best bet. I only mention the coercive control angle because even if that is what's going on here, its irrelevant if its not going to 'get' you anywhere legally or in terms of people acting. I think the language you should be using to the hospital and social worker is around vulnerability and their duty of care to get his housing assessed. I also wonder if contacting an organisation like Age Action for advise could be useful: they may be able to point you towards other sources of support/assessment that you might not have thought of. Good luck.
 
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