Codology not theology.
- Thread starter cremeegg
- Start date
Compared with many of the religions circulating in the Near East, Christianity at least at the time of its birth seems positively enlightened in its treatment of women... Christianity is noticeable by its asbence from the list of religions that engaged in this:
Bring back the vestal virgins of Rome and the pythian priestesses of Delphi!
Bring back the vestal virgins of Rome and the pythian priestesses of Delphi!
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And then there's this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)
Never mind equality... this is just positively horrific.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)
Never mind equality... this is just positively horrific.
"The" church? Surely Mary isn't still pretending to be a Catholic?
This was common in Deli when the British East India company took over. The British banned it and it let to a lot of tension between the Hindi's and the Brits. It is one of the factors which led to the rebellion that the British call the Indian Mutiny in which the Hindu's rebelled against their British masters. The Emperor of Deli was a Muslim (the https://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Mughal-Fall-Delhi-1857/dp/1408800926 (last Mughal Emperor)) and for some reason he and therefore Muslims bore the brunt of the blame. The retaliation by the British East India company was so horrific that it led to their disbandment and the Brits taking over directly. One impact on the modern world is the extremist Islam in Pakistan as the Madrases were closed and suppressed and they moved into the more extreme parts of what is now Pakistan.
Anyway, back to Mary.
That can be said about most Catholics, including most Catholic Clergy.
That's a good thing and a bad thing.
True, which makes you wonder why they get so uppity about how something they don't believe in should be run.
I read a little more of Mary’s speech. She called on the church to address its misogyny in the name of “equality”.
Mary the church is a hierarchical organization. It does not operate on the basis of equality.
Nor has it ever claimed to do.
What a waste of her talent.
Mary the church is a hierarchical organization. It does not operate on the basis of equality.
Nor has it ever claimed to do.
What a waste of her talent.
That doesn't follow. All societies are hierarchically governed. It doesn't follow that gender equality is impossible in all societies
It’s ironic that at the front lines the RC church is run by women. There isn’t a parish in Ireland where women don’t do most of the organising, fund raising and real ministering. For all the great work women have done to gain equality in this country many are still willing to be second class when it comes to their faith.
The “god calls us to different vocations” line reminds me of the “different but equal” policy in the Southern United States in the 1960’s
The “god calls us to different vocations” line reminds me of the “different but equal” policy in the Southern United States in the 1960’s
However, the “god calls us to different vocations” line has been declared as an "infallible teaching" by the church. So either the bauld Mary ceases to be catholic by rejecting it, or the Catholic Church ceases to be catholic because its doctrines are false. Either way, Mary can't be a catholic. It's an interesting Catch 22.
You're right Purple. Kind of like some Golf Clubs in the week of their important tournaments I can hear the Captain's Speech " . . . . and now I would like to thank the Ladies Committee without whom this day would not be possible" . . . . and simultaneously thinking "If that crowd of female Gossipers think they can use our greens at weekends, they can forget about it."
In fairness to Mary Mc she's only venting her spleen because she cares, the rest of us just roll the eyes and it doesn't cost us a thought. I think she's dead right to look for change, as she says herself misogny or the general downgrading of the role of women is not core to catholicism, I dont recall This post will be deleted if not edited immediately saying "Blessed are the women, but restrict them to sandwich making and flower arranging". I often wonder what would This post will be deleted if not edited immediately make of it all if he returned, I suspect there'd be an element of throwing the traders out of the Temple as the hierarchy have not served the faith well over the last 2,000 years (Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, paedophiles, protecting their own position at the expense of the common good).
I say all this as a 'cultural catholic' - not really a believer, particularly in institutions, but with a sense that doing good is the way to honour the message of This post will be deleted if not edited immediately - and sure if he didnt exist its certainly a good role model so why not 'believe'.
I say all this as a 'cultural catholic' - not really a believer, particularly in institutions, but with a sense that doing good is the way to honour the message of This post will be deleted if not edited immediately - and sure if he didnt exist its certainly a good role model so why not 'believe'.
So what makes us think the latest power play by Mary and her henchwomen will fare any better?
I'm not sure you could call it a power play - that might be more appropriate if she already had some power and was trying to leverage it. As to the potential success, highly unlikely, but sure if you think you're right why not say it. Someone has to be pioneering, change can take generations but it does take the first person to refuse to go to the back of the bus - now I don't know enough about it to know if Mary is stuck in some personality clash, but I have to say I 100% agree with her, have no reason to doubt her sincerity, & I dont particularly get the vibe that she's showboating for attention, seems more like frustration. So pull hard early and often Mary and we'll see what, if anything, comes out of it.
Exactly. As I mentioned in my "Catch 22" comment above, if Mary achieves what she wants she will be a Protestant by definition. There are already lots of Protestant churches. Why not just pick one? I think it's probably because she wants the Catholic Church to become Protestant along with her, otherwise she would just leave. That's why I call it a power play.
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Well, y'know, it is "the one true faith".
Maybe she loves the bones of the church and just wants it to improve on this aspect. Its like someone arguing for widespread video ref in soccer (I know it is being trialled), and you say "sure just go to rugby, there's loads of video reffing there" and she says, but I love the beautiful game, this egg chasing does nothing for me....You seem to be putting massive stor on this aspect of Canon Law, so that if you cant suck it up you should leave, or if you get your way you have fundamentally changed the thing. By that logic the Catholic Church turned protestant when it went with Vatican II, this is just a bit of further tinkering. Weren't the popes in the Middle Ages gangsta Borgias??, what makes the current regime so sacrosanct that you cant work with it and develop it, reality must encroach on the church at some point?
I sound like someone who gives a proverbial... how did this happen......
Well, y'know, it is "the one true faith".
Isn't that the point though -- it can't be if the stuff it (infallibly) said was true, isn't.
Can't be done without showing it up for a liar.
That logic seems unavoidable, though. It has stuck to the same line over and over, and twice in the modern era declared it to be infallible. That seems pretty definitive.
It's a long time since I looked at anything to do with Vatican II but if I remember right, all of its documents are extensively footnoted with how it is part of the unbroken Tradition. Could be horse manure, but that's what it claims.
They sure were. But that doesn't affect doctrinal statements (allegedly).
Why would anyone want anything to do with something so removed from reality? Surely Mary should be running a mile from something that's been making infallible claims for twenty millenia that are all drivel.
Don't worry about it. We're Irish -- being opinionated about the RCC is our birthright even if we haven't darkened the door of a church for decades.