if this is the wrong forum i apologise .but work is scarce enough as it . twice today ive gotten phone calls cancelling jobs ive quoted for and been given the go ahead for. basically whats happpened is that because the jobs were small and people seem to be alot more cautius about giving deposits i didnt ask for one . but both clients have rang asking for last minute discounts and cancelled the jobs when i said i couldnt reduce the price as the prices were already to the bone. now its a €1000 of work that i really cant afford to lose but if you work for nothing you'll never be idle. has anyone come up against this. anyone!!
clients who pay no deposits, cancelling orders
- Thread starter donee
- Start date
Re: Losing work
Sounds like the potential clients probably got a better price elsewhere, even after giving you the go ahead. Or else they got cold feet because they genuinely felt they couldn't afford to do the work right now.
If your price was to the bone, as you said, well of course you did the right thing by not reducing any further.
You don't say what kind of work it is but I don't think asking for a deposit would have helped much. Either way, you should do what's standard in your industry re deposits/payment schedules. If you're too aggressive about collecting money before doing any work you'll scare people off.
Sounds like the potential clients probably got a better price elsewhere, even after giving you the go ahead. Or else they got cold feet because they genuinely felt they couldn't afford to do the work right now.
If your price was to the bone, as you said, well of course you did the right thing by not reducing any further.
You don't say what kind of work it is but I don't think asking for a deposit would have helped much. Either way, you should do what's standard in your industry re deposits/payment schedules. If you're too aggressive about collecting money before doing any work you'll scare people off.
Re: Losing work
no they said they could get the jobs done cheaper .its changing kitchen worktops in one and altering kitchen units in the other , my point really is that if anyone is doing it any cheaper than i was then they cant be paying tax ins etc and when i put this to them it didnt seem to matter only the price , i think the race to the bottom is well and truly on. and as i said i didnt even ask the clients for a deposit to cover material costs
no they said they could get the jobs done cheaper .its changing kitchen worktops in one and altering kitchen units in the other , my point really is that if anyone is doing it any cheaper than i was then they cant be paying tax ins etc and when i put this to them it didnt seem to matter only the price , i think the race to the bottom is well and truly on. and as i said i didnt even ask the clients for a deposit to cover material costs
notagardener
Registered User
- Messages
- 100
Re: Losing work
Maybe they went to Ben Dunne's new site, where people mail the type of work they need done and trade's people pitch their price. An Auction going the wrong way. Well done Mr Dunne (loadsofmoney) - more exploitation in Ireland.....
Maybe they went to Ben Dunne's new site, where people mail the type of work they need done and trade's people pitch their price. An Auction going the wrong way. Well done Mr Dunne (loadsofmoney) - more exploitation in Ireland.....
notagardener
Registered User
- Messages
- 100
Re: Losing work
yep - it was advertised on Newstalk today. Think he's calling it tenderwithme.ie - Sure you'll see it tomorrow in the press - Had a politician at my door trying to tell me there was light at the end of the tunnel. Lucky he survived!!!
yep - it was advertised on Newstalk today. Think he's calling it tenderwithme.ie - Sure you'll see it tomorrow in the press - Had a politician at my door trying to tell me there was light at the end of the tunnel. Lucky he survived!!!
Re: Losing work
I think Ben Dunne's site is a good idea - why not?
It's actually called and is not the first of its kind in Ireland. What's wrong with a dutch auction method? It just simplifies the quote process for everyone. I'm sure plenty of good tradesmen will find work out of this.
I think Ben Dunne's site is a good idea - why not?
It's actually called and is not the first of its kind in Ireland. What's wrong with a dutch auction method? It just simplifies the quote process for everyone. I'm sure plenty of good tradesmen will find work out of this.
notagardener
Registered User
- Messages
- 100
Re: Losing work
I imagine every cowboy out there is raising a glass to Mr Dunne - Anyone can call to anyones home now - very dangerous without certification and registration
I imagine every cowboy out there is raising a glass to Mr Dunne - Anyone can call to anyones home now - very dangerous without certification and registration
Re: Losing work
You obviously haven't checked out the site or the process. Whoever posts the tender decides on who wins the tender, and it doesn't have to be the cheapest. References can be asked for. Insurance can be insisted upon. Just like the real world.
You obviously haven't checked out the site or the process. Whoever posts the tender decides on who wins the tender, and it doesn't have to be the cheapest. References can be asked for. Insurance can be insisted upon. Just like the real world.
Re: Losing work
in principal its not a bad idea but im old enough to remember the 80's and the nixer kings it created and the cowboys it created . but extopia i dont obviously know your occupation but people only seem to think that these kind of sites only affect tradespeople and initially they do but everything has a habit of working its way into other sectors. you can get very good tradesmen at the moment to work cheaply, the reason for that is that if they were self employed they now are not entitled to JSA so have very little income, but my point is , is that you still cant work for nothing
Re: Losing work
A dutch auction is just a method of selecting the lowest quote. Nothing wrong with that. And for what it's worth, my occupation is indeed included on the tenderme site. I'm not worried. I'd prefer to see it as a potential source of new business. I don't ever expect to get work if I'm not competitive on price/quality/speed and I don't see how this site is advantageous to "nixer merchants" unless there's an assumption that customers don't know what they're doing.
I'm also old enough to remember the 80s too, by the way
A dutch auction is just a method of selecting the lowest quote. Nothing wrong with that. And for what it's worth, my occupation is indeed included on the tenderme site. I'm not worried. I'd prefer to see it as a potential source of new business. I don't ever expect to get work if I'm not competitive on price/quality/speed and I don't see how this site is advantageous to "nixer merchants" unless there's an assumption that customers don't know what they're doing.
I'm also old enough to remember the 80s too, by the way
Re: Losing work
SORRY about that ive just looked at the site , but whats to stop ie the owners of the site analyising the most popular responses to tenders and re submitting them in a slightly altered way after all at €3 a reply in todays market if i owned it , its tempting. that said i still wonder if anyone has come across my original problem lately?
SORRY about that ive just looked at the site , but whats to stop ie the owners of the site analyising the most popular responses to tenders and re submitting them in a slightly altered way after all at €3 a reply in todays market if i owned it , its tempting. that said i still wonder if anyone has come across my original problem lately?
Re: Losing work
I don't understand what you mean here? Do you mean the site owners would start faking tenders just to get responses? If that's what you mean, I suppose the main deterrent against this is the fact that the site would probably die an instant death?
I don't understand what you mean here? Do you mean the site owners would start faking tenders just to get responses? If that's what you mean, I suppose the main deterrent against this is the fact that the site would probably die an instant death?
notagardener
Registered User
- Messages
- 100
Re: Losing work
I certainly understand the tender process and in principle I do agree the idea behind the site is a good one and not an original one, BUT it does allow anyone to quote for work irrespective of their work experience or qualification. You can ask for references, you can ask for insurance as you posted, but it will leave vulernable people exposed to those out to make a quick buck and not too worried about work quality..Time will tell if it's successful, but I have my doubts and reckon most radio stations will have phone ins telling of peoples woes and most likely RTE will launch their own version of Watchdog - By the way I'm generally an optimist
I certainly understand the tender process and in principle I do agree the idea behind the site is a good one and not an original one, BUT
it does allow anyone to quote for work irrespective of their work experience or qualification. You can ask for references, you can ask for insurance as you posted, but it will leave vulernable people exposed to those out to make a quick buck and not too worried about work quality..Time will tell if it's successful, but I have my doubts and reckon most radio stations will have phone ins telling of peoples woes and most likely RTE will launch their own version of Watchdog - By the way I'm generally an optimist
J
JoeB
Guest
Re: Losing work
I have had a few people cancel after I had quoted but before been given the go-ahead. This has happened a few times over a few months.. so not much. In some cases they say they have lost their job or suffered other misfortunes.
I think you need to get deposits... after all this problem is exactly what deposits are supposed to prevent. If you have been given the go-ahead then you may have started the work, and you'd be out of pocket and you'd have work done that would be a complete loss. At least if you have the deposit then you're ok.. and obviously deposits are non-refundable in most circumstances.
I ask for a significant enough deposit.. maybe 30% or so but this can vary depending on the type of work and the quoted price. If you feel people won't go-ahead if you ask for a deposit then the job probably isn't worth it.. like why would a serious customer not be prepared to pay a deposit?.. probably because they're not a serious customer at all.
It's not guaranteed that people under cutting you means they're not paying taxes.. where you estimate it might take four days to do a good job.. someone else might think a 'good' job can be done in three.. the difference might be the standard aimed at.. to do quality work takes time.. some people rush the jobs, do poor quality work but still labour under the impression that the work is actually good, and they're wrong. Some customers don't notice the poor quality work.. or else they only notice after the job is done, and then it's too late.
I have had a few people cancel after I had quoted but before been given the go-ahead. This has happened a few times over a few months.. so not much. In some cases they say they have lost their job or suffered other misfortunes.
I think you need to get deposits... after all this problem is exactly what deposits are supposed to prevent. If you have been given the go-ahead then you may have started the work, and you'd be out of pocket and you'd have work done that would be a complete loss. At least if you have the deposit then you're ok.. and obviously deposits are non-refundable in most circumstances.
I ask for a significant enough deposit.. maybe 30% or so but this can vary depending on the type of work and the quoted price. If you feel people won't go-ahead if you ask for a deposit then the job probably isn't worth it.. like why would a serious customer not be prepared to pay a deposit?.. probably because they're not a serious customer at all.
It's not guaranteed that people under cutting you means they're not paying taxes.. where you estimate it might take four days to do a good job.. someone else might think a 'good' job can be done in three.. the difference might be the standard aimed at.. to do quality work takes time.. some people rush the jobs, do poor quality work but still labour under the impression that the work is actually good, and they're wrong. Some customers don't notice the poor quality work.. or else they only notice after the job is done, and then it's too late.
Re: Losing work
I thought this was called a reverse auction and not a dutch auction?A dutch auction is just a method of selecting the lowest quote. Nothing wrong with that.
J
JoeB
Guest
Re: Losing work
A reverse auction is one where the lowest bid that isn't duplicated is the winner.. only useful for competations really as far as I can tell..
A reverse auction is one where the lowest bid that isn't duplicated is the winner.. only useful for competations really as far as I can tell..
OP - have you asked the clients why they won't proceed? You need to understand if you are actually losing to someone else or maybe the client simply can;t go ahead at the moment.
If you are reluctant to take a deposit, you could get a contract signed to state that "x% cancellation fee will be applied if work is cancelled within Xdays of the work due to start". It will probably never be worth you while persuing clients, but at least clients will be more likely to be certain they want to proceed
If you are reluctant to take a deposit, you could get a contract signed to state that "x% cancellation fee will be applied if work is cancelled within Xdays of the work due to start". It will probably never be worth you while persuing clients, but at least clients will be more likely to be certain they want to proceed
thermalcrete
Registered User
- Messages
- 21
I recently carried out a renovation of a bathroom, had a problem with the shower door supplied, got paid most of the money from the client. Waited for the door to be replaced (by supplier) client now wants me to reduce the outstanding balance - quoted there's a recession on! People think they can use the recession to save paying money out. If you do a good job for a customer they should not have the cheek to look for a reduction after the job is done. Always, Always take a deposit and always get a written contract