Civil/Public Service Pay Scale Late Entrants

A

appd

Registered User
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Hi All,

I am considering applying for a position within the Public Service.

The job specification lays out the pay scale. And says it is non negotiable.

€48,868 – €50,297 – €51,722 – €53,147 – €54,577 – €56,003 – €57,429 –€59,489 (LSI 1) –
€61,545 (LSI 2)

However, would anyone know whether allowance or credit is given to number of years experience in the private sector in the same field.

Or would a 25 year old and a 45 year old (with 20 years experience) both start on the bottom of the pay scale?

Best Regards.
 
How does your pension work? You've been paying for a PRSI pension for 20 years. Does that give you more years in your PS pension?
 
Purple said:
How does your pension work? You've been paying for a PRSI pension for 20 years. Does that give you more years in your PS pension?
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A PS pension does not work like that.

It is a little more complicated than this simplification, especially in the Single Scheme, but if you work for 20 years in the PS then the PS pension implicitly assumes that you will have this same portion of the State Pension, ie, 50% of State Pension. You public service occupational pension will then be 20/80 of pensionable salary minus 50% of State Pension (again it it is both more complicated and less generous than this in the Single Scheme).

Of course, if you have worked elsewhere and built up a sufficient PRSI record, you may qualify for a full State Pension. This does not make any difference to the calculation of the PS occupational pension.
 
appd said:
However, would anyone know whether allowance or credit is given to number of years experience in the private sector in the same field.

Or would a 25 year old and a 45 year old (with 20 years experience) both start on the bottom of the pay scale?
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With 20yrs experience in the same field, credit would certainly be applied at the interview stage.
 
Early Riser said:
A PS pension does not work like that.

It is a little more complicated than this simplification, especially in the Single Scheme, but if you work for 20 years in the PS then the PS pension implicitly assumes that you will have this same portion of the State Pension, ie, 50% of State Pension. You public service occupational pension will then be 20/80 of pensionable salary minus 50% of State Pension (again it it is both more complicated and less generous than this in the Single Scheme).

Of course, if you have worked elsewhere and built up a sufficient PRSI record, you may qualify for a full State Pension. This does not make any difference to the calculation of the PS occupational pension.
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Okay so you get whatever State pension you worked up in the private sector and then a separate pension from the State based on your public sector service?
 
Purple said:
Okay so you get whatever State pension you worked up in the private sector and then a separate pension from the State based on your public sector service?
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Here is an example (pre-single scheme but normal Class A PRSI). This is a rough-and-ready shorthand way of calculating the pension.

Joe works 20 years in the private sector, paying PRSI. He joins PS at 45 and retires at 65 with 20 years service on a pensionable salary of €100,000.

PS pension (roughly calculated) is €100,000 *20/80 minus €6,500. So he gets an occupational pension of €18,500.

Joe applies for his State Pension at the relevant age. This is calculated on his full PRSI record. He is probably awarded full state pension of €13,000.

Joe's PRSI record outside of his PS employment is irrelevant to the calculation of his occupational pension.

In the Single Scheme (post 2013) the occupational pension is calculated based on career average earnings rather than final salary. But the same principle.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
How recently? I know you could negotiate pre-2008 but understood there was a ban put in force after that. Maybe it's been lifted.
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I'm not aware of any lifting of it, and I lost an excellent and very experienced colleague due to it, who AFAIK explored every avenue before ultimately deciding he couldn't stay for the money that the bottom of the scale pays less than a year after joining the public service.

The big negative from his, and any sensible future experienced recruits, is the career averaged pension. He couldn't afford to spend an unspecified amount of time on relatively low money (as an AO) in the expectation of progressing to a better paid position (AP), when he's only about 15 years from retirement...
 
WolfeTone said:
With 20yrs experience in the same field, credit would certainly be applied at the interview stage.
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To to be clear. Are you talking about being successful at interview. Nothing to do with where you start on the pay scale?
Any PS jobs, I've seen are very clear about you have to start at the bottom on the scale, with the exception of previous PS service may be taken into account, but there are some conditions even around that.
 
The problem for a late entrant is promotions might be slow in coming. You'd be trying to compete with existing staff for promotions. I'd also consider that after last crash there there was embargo on recruitment and that effected promotions and everything else. There would be strong odds something similar will happen this time, they are talking about not going ahead with the last round of pay restoration etc.
 
Hi appd,
In terms of pay you have to start at the bottom of the scale. Of course your experience and how you demonstrate your experience at interview stage will stand to you.
Am I right in saying your going for a HEO position? It's possible after a year or two you could progress to AP level but competition can be tough.
 
Hi All, I am not sure why some posts have deviated into the area of pensions. Perhaps my original post was unclear. I was purely asking if someone with 20 years experience must start at the bottom of the pay scale. I was not referring to the interview process in any way.

Many thanks.
 
I’m sorry, but that just isn’t the case.

My sister-in-law works in this area and she’s here in the house as we speak and I’ve asked her. As in recruits people.

She is saying to me that someone has to come in on a pay-scale, but to use Grade VIII as an example, if someone is paid €75k in their current private sector role, he or she can be brought in on a point that isn’t the bottom point.

Think about it, it’d be crazy if there wasn’t some flexibility.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
I’m sorry, but that just isn’t the case.

My sister-in-law works in this area and she’s here in the house as we speak and I’ve asked her. As in recruits people.

She is saying to me that someone has to come in on a pay-scale, but to use Grade VIII as an example, if someone is paid €75k in their current private sector role, he or she can be brought in on a point that isn’t the bottom point.

Think about it, it’d be crazy if there wasn’t some flexibility.
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It may be different between public sector and the civil service (Grade VIII sounds like local authority or HSE or something). I can say with certainty, having tried to help someone to navigate it, it was an absolute no. To be fair, the terms of the competitive process through which a person is recruited will state if it's the case, so there shouldn't be any illusions.

In the case I'm familiar with (and indeed my own case when I became a civil servant and took a drop of about 15% in gross pay), the question was asked and answered at time of signing up.

If an organisation is running a competition for HEOs and panels dozens of people, they'll be happy to just offer it to the next person down the list, if the first person says they won't start at the bottom of the scale. That's just the way the civil service works. They run a merit / competency based competition, and from their perspective it'd make no sense to appoint person number 1 at 47k, and so on down the list until number 10 says "I'm a big shot and I'm not taking a drop in money to slum it with you guys" and they get to start on 53k...

There is a degree of flexibility when a single specific position is being recruited for, and in order to fill the position it's considered that it may be necessary to take someone in above the bottom of the scale.
 
The OP’s query refers to the public service, not the civil service.

But let’s take Revenue, an area you’re familiar with. The Big 4 Directors who were whacked in 2008/2009 and joined Revenue...they didn’t go in on the first point of any scale.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
The OP’s query refers to the public service, not the civil service.

But let’s take Revenue, an area you’re familiar with. The Big 4 Directors who were whacked in 2008/2009 and joined Revenue...they didn’t go in on the first point of any scale.
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You're talking about a handful of people going in at a quite high level there i.e. closer to the example I gave above.

The OP is talking about a mid-management position, the equivalent of a HEO; there'll be loads of applicants, plenty panelled, and anyone who doesn't want to start at the bottom of the scale will be told they can like it or lump it.
 
1. I would advise the OP to ask for credit in payscale for experience earned elsewhere.
2. If the public/civil service needs expertise there are avenues for starting people up the scale irrespective of some sanctions imposed after the last recession.
 
AlbacoreA said:
To to be clear. Are you talking about being successful at interview. Nothing to do with where you start on the pay scale?
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Yes, I would imagine when applying for a job getting on the payscale in the first instance would be first priority - the point at which you enter would be secondary.
In other words, if you don't succeed at interview level then the question is moot. Having 20yrs experience should offer some advantages over someone with no or little experience.
 
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