Chip and PIN - Watch your back !

[Niallymac]

As the much heralded chip and pin technology now starts to bed down, i can't believe the complete lack of privacy afforded to the consumer in most outlets when it comes to entering your PIN. Almost every time I've had to do it, there have been people around/behind me that could easily be memorising it/writing it down.

Once someone has your PIN, you have no comeback if they use your card fraudulently. The old signature based technology at least required a good forger or relied on poor policing by retailers. The only beneficiaries of Chip and Pin are the financial institutions, it doesn't in any way benefit Joe Punter who may be pick pocketed or jumped in the street by someone who has there PIN already after standing behind them in a queue.

 

[ClubMan]

This site is worth reading in this context - Chip and Spin.

 

[Alex]

i once went into a shop where i gave my laser card to the shop assistant... he swiped my card at the other side of the counter and then asked me for my pin so he could enter it himself! i was furious. anyhow... i demanded that i enter it myself as that is the way it is meant to be done. that was very suspect if you ask me. has this ever happened to anyone else?

Alex.

 

[DrMoriarty]

Not that. But you did right.

 

[RainyDay]

i once went into a shop where i gave my laser card to the shop assistant... he swiped my card at the other side of the counter and then asked me for my pin so he could enter it himself! i was furious. anyhow... i demanded that i enter it myself as that is the way it is meant to be done. that was very suspect if you ask me. has this ever happened to anyone else?

Alex.

You should report this to the shop manager and/or your bank.

 

[demoivre]

As the much heralded chip and pin technology now starts to bed down, i can't believe the complete lack of privacy afforded to the consumer in most outlets when it comes to entering your PIN. Almost every time I've had to do it, there have been people around/behind me that could easily be memorising it/writing it down.

Once someone has your PIN, you have no comeback if they use your card fraudulently. The old signature based technology at least required a good forger or relied on poor policing by retailers. The only beneficiaries of Chip and Pin are the financial institutions, it doesn't in any way benefit Joe Punter who may be pick pocketed or jumped in the street by someone who has there PIN already after standing behind them in a queue.

Totally agree with you - I have come across several Chip and PIN key pads that are so awkwardly placed that it is virtually impossible to shield the number you are entering. The "flat on the counter " type pads are the only ones where you can make a reasonable attempt to protect your PIN imo. Why some of them are placed vertically on stands at roughly stomach height is beyond me - your hand needs to be at a 90 degree angle to your wrist to even enter the PIN . Maybe they work well if you are 4' 6"

 

[moneyhoney]

I was in Amsterdam a few weeks ago and all the PIN pads there are flat with a cover, so you slide your hand in to put in your number......why the retailers here have been allowed to purchase such shoddy equipment is beyond me. I think I might refuse to use Chip & PIN until it's up to scratch. Wonder how bank would react to that??

 

[TarfHead]

It has happened to me a couple of times that I have been asked 'do you know your PIN ?'. I am never sure if they are asking me to tell them so that they can enter it.

The first time I got all haughty and said "I don't even tell my wife what it is so I'm not telling you ".

On reflection perhaps they were checking if they had to do a C&P authorisation, or get a docket for me to sign ?

On a similar theme, do you know that if someone asks you to write your cheque card number on the back of a cheque that it invalidates the whole process ? The person accepting the cheque has to record the number as evidence that they have seen it. If the person writing the cheque writes the CC number, it's pointless.

Similarly, if someone working for the retailer enters the PIN on your behalf, they are, in effect, accepting liability.

 

[ClubMan]

It has happened to me a couple of times that I have been asked 'do you know your PIN ?'. I am never sure if they are asking me to tell them so that they can enter it.

I've been asked that a few times and it was always because they wanted to know if they should use the chip and PIN approach or the conventional approach to processing the payment.

 

[brodiebabe]

i once went into a shop where i gave my laser card to the shop assistant... he swiped my card at the other side of the counter and then asked me for my pin so he could enter it himself! i was furious. anyhow... i demanded that i enter it myself as that is the way it is meant to be done. that was very suspect if you ask me. has this ever happened to anyone else?

Alex.

This has never happened to me but I would have done what you did and asked to enter it myself. That is the whole point of Chip and Pin - the card is secure because only you know the pin number.

 

[GeneralZod]

Is the PIN number really a restriction on using the cards?

Automated payment systems like those at car parks and tescos don't require
the number to be entered at all. Merely having the card (or presumably a cloned
card) is enough to pay for it.

When the payment machine dials up the authentication computer does it send it a field
for "no pin entered but authorise it anyway"? Is there a limit for unauthenticated
transactions made through completely automated payment systems?

Or are those systems based on the magnetic stripe only?

 

[royrogers]

I always put my hand over the pad number when I am entering it for cash or for payments of goods that way they cannot see what number you are entering. You should never give anyone your number no matter what?

 

[bond-007]

Is the PIN number really a restriction on using the cards?

Automated payment systems like those at car parks and tescos don't require
the number to be entered at all. Merely having the card (or presumably a cloned
card) is enough to pay for it.

When the payment machine dials up the authentication computer does it send it a field
for "no pin entered but authorise it anyway"? Is there a limit for unauthenticated
transactions made through completely automated payment systems?

Or are those systems based on the magnetic stripe only?

On the tesco petrol pumps the limit is €99. I think in store those self service tills have a limit of €50. If you spend more than 50 a human has to intervene and get you to sign a docket or enter a PIN.

 

[MonsieurBond]

Is the PIN number really a restriction on using the cards?

Automated payment systems like those at car parks and tescos don't require
the number to be entered at all. Merely having the card (or presumably a cloned
card) is enough to pay for it.

When the payment machine dials up the authentication computer does it send it a field
for "no pin entered but authorise it anyway"? Is there a limit for unauthenticated
transactions made through completely automated payment systems?

Or are those systems based on the magnetic stripe only?

If the machine is incapable of accepting a PIN then it will read the magnetic stripe and authorise online. As Bond-007 (no relation) says above, a floor limit usually applies.