Health Insurance Cheaper alternative to Irish Life 4D Health 2 for adult + child?

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ClubMan

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I'm aware of the HIA site but find it very difficult to use and compare plans (only 4 plans at a time and when you go back you have to start again it seems - and there's a bug in the "lock" option when comparing plans) so I was wondering if anybody here knows offhand of any comparable plan to Irish Life 4D Health 2 for one adult and one child (17 next birthday) that would be more cost effective?

Irish Life have told me that I will lose the group discount at renewal because I am no longer employed with the company under which the group scheme operates. I would have expected that I could get it via CU membership or something like that but they weren't clear on that. I'm currently paying €1,394 (adult) + €339 (child). Might it be possible and more cost effective to insure each with different providers - I think I saw that mentioned in some thread here a while back?

Ideally I'd like similar cover to that provided by 4D Health 2 and in recent years the amount of day to day expenses claimed have been such that not insuring for these would not seem cost effective so I would like to keep similar cover in that respect.

Thanks.
 
ClubMan said:
Irish Life have told me that I will lose the group discount at renewal because I am no longer employed with the company under which the group scheme operates. I would have expected that I could get it via CU membership or something like that but they weren't clear on that. I'm currently paying €1,394 (adult) + €339 (child). Might it be possible and more cost effective to insure each with different providers - I think I saw that mentioned in some thread here a while back?

Ideally I'd like similar cover to that provided by 4D Health 2 and in recent years the amount of day to day expenses claimed have been such that not insuring for these would not seem cost effective so I would like to keep similar cover in that respect.

Thanks.
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Hi Clubman,

Long time no talk :)

Sorry I can't give you advice on your plan(s) but I would have to say that I find our VHI plan PMI0710 (as recommended by snowyb) some years back to have great cover especially the €1,000 per year on day-to-day expenses. My premium is €1,311.95 so not that much cheaper than your one with Irish Life. We used to be able to avail of a student discount but if memory serves me well this may have been discontinued but may be worth your while to double check that.

The HIA website is quite confusing and IMHO not very user friendly which is a terrible pity because it is such an important tool for all of us renewing.

I got a bee in my bonnet some time back when I remembered that there did not appear to be any mention of Group scheme discounts and when I checked it out it appeared to have gone by the wayside. Despite the credit unions advertising it as one of their perks it does not apply any longer or so I was told at the time.
 
Thanks @Sue Ellen.
Do you mean that the CU group discount no longer applies or that some insurers/policies don't offer any group discount?
The HIA website is disappointingly poor in my opinion and is largely useless for shopping around and comparing products.

Thanks @phoenix53 - I think that I caught some of that radio programme but will listen in full in case it helps.
 
Hi Clubman,

Check out some plans here:

Health insurance Ireland | Special Offers | Health Cover Ireland

Current Special Offers on Private Health Insurance July 14 – Summary VHI Healthcare ½ price on 61 plans for children and student dependents from 01.07.14: (This includes popul
www.totalhealthcover.ie

Cheapest corporate plans on the market are Laya Inspire and VHI PMI 52 10. Sue mentioned PMI 0710 above which is a very good option. At that price Company plan plus level 1.3 is also a good option.

A lot of these plans offer similar cover across the board with only differences in a few specific sections. You'll have to download the table of benefits for each ( or try using the HIA comparison for 4 plans) and see if any of these differences suit your personal situation better and if the price makes any difference to you.

If you want to go any cheaper than that with similar hospital cover you can look at the Enhanced care plans from VHI. You'll take a in the day to day cover though which you mentioned you don't really want to do.

One thing to bear in mind is Irish Life are the only insurer to properly cover massages and not just reflexology so that might make the extra premium for 4D Health 2 worth it to you.

Hope this is useful and all the best.
 
ClubMan said:
Thanks @Sue Ellen.
Do you mean that the CU group discount no longer applies or that some insurers/policies don't offer any group discount?
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As far as I can recall the Group discount has been scrapped altogether with VHI but am open to correction on this :) I rang one or two credit unions and one of them confirmed it was no longer available through their membership.
 
phoenix53 said:
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22045086/ Not a specific answer, but I thought it was an interesting interview and did give some pointers to people. Mostly ring them, give it lots of time, have your questions ready.
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@ClubMan

If you do ring them make sure it is as soon as they open in the morning. I rang VHI early today and was told it would be a wait of approx. 7 minutes but it was longer than that. Lots of people have their renewal on 22nd January, with VHI so between that, staff working from home and Covid illness they are under ferocious pressure.

The other companies will probably be under the same pressure as are most companies these days.
 
Thanks @Sue Ellen - I was hoping that if I switch (from Irish Life to, say, VHI) then I can just do it online?

Also, apologies, I forgot that I had posted on this topic a while ago here so if one of the mods wants to merge the threads then that's fine by me.

Health Insurance - Alternative to Irish Life 4D Health 2?

I'm currently on this policy for myself (net premium €1,267, mid 50s) and 16 year old son (€315). My employer pays 90% so there's BIK on that and I have to claim some tax relief manually. I'm leaving work and will be paying for cover myself for the foreseeable future. As ever I'm bamboozled...
www.askaboutmoney.com
 
ClubMan said:
Thanks @Sue Ellen - I was hoping that if I switch (from Irish Life to, say, VHI) then I can just do it online?

Also, apologies, I forgot that I had posted on this topic a while ago here so if one of the mods wants to merge the threads then that's fine by me.

Health Insurance - Alternative to Irish Life 4D Health 2?

I'm currently on this policy for myself (net premium €1,267, mid 50s) and 16 year old son (€315). My employer pays 90% so there's BIK on that and I have to claim some tax relief manually. I'm leaving work and will be paying for cover myself for the foreseeable future. As ever I'm bamboozled...
www.askaboutmoney.com
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If it were me I would prefer to get some advice/comparison from VHI in case there is anything you are missing. Its too important a matter to leave to your own devices as hospital charges/procedures are so costly these days. A relative got caught out some years back but it was to do with the Upgrade Rule rather than specific cover. When they needed in-hospital expensive treatment it was a worrying time.
 
I understand but, to be honest, I'd be skeptical of getting unbiased and authoritative info/advice that way. A few years ago I had to have surgery and trying to get Irish Life themselves to tell me if/how I was covered was a nightmare. I couldn't figure it out from their documentation so rang them and ended up little the wiser. I had three procedure codes but the surgeon wasn't sure which would apply until he operated. Even when I asked if I was likely to face a bill/excess of hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of euros they wouldn't give me a straight answer. It was really frustrating and added stress that I could've done without going in for surgery. Reading between the lines from talking to others I got the impression that what often happens is that the bill to the insurer just uses whatever procedure code has most cover. In the end I was fully covered for the surgery, related services and hospital stay (€15k+ all in) bar an excess of €150 payable to the Mater Private. But it would've been less stressful knowing that in advance... :(
 
ClubMan said:
I understand but, to be honest, I'd be skeptical of getting unbiased and authoritative info/advice that way. A few years ago I had to have surgery and trying to get Irish Life themselves to tell me if/how I was covered was a nightmare. I couldn't figure it out from their documentation so rang them and ended up little the wiser. I had three procedure codes but the surgeon wasn't sure which would apply until he operated. Even when I asked if I was likely to face a bill/excess of hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of euros they wouldn't give me a straight answer. It was really frustrating and added stress that I could've done without going in for surgery. Reading between the lines from talking to others I got the impression that what often happens is that the bill to the insurer just uses whatever procedure code has most cover. In the end I was fully covered for the surgery, related services and hospital stay (€15k+ all in) bar an excess of €150 payable to the Mater Private. But it would've been less stressful knowing that in advance... :(
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I don't think you have anything to lose though and as these calls are recorded you could always refer back to that or even get your confirmation by sending an e-mail rather than ringing. It might take a while for e-mail reply at moment though.

Your experience regarding the surgery and confirmation sounds as horrific as my relatives one which was in the Mater Private also :(
 
ClubMan said:
I understand but, to be honest, I'd be skeptical of getting unbiased and authoritative info/advice that way. A few years ago I had to have surgery and trying to get Irish Life themselves to tell me if/how I was covered was a nightmare. I couldn't figure it out from their documentation so rang them and ended up little the wiser. I had three procedure codes but the surgeon wasn't sure which would apply until he operated. Even when I asked if I was likely to face a bill/excess of hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of euros they wouldn't give me a straight answer. It was really frustrating and added stress that I could've done without going in for surgery. Reading between the lines from talking to others I got the impression that what often happens is that the bill to the insurer just uses whatever procedure code has most cover. In the end I was fully covered for the surgery, related services and hospital stay (€15k+ all in) bar an excess of €150 payable to the Mater Private. But it would've been less stressful knowing that in advance... :(
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Sorry to hear of the stress all that caused. I'm not sure why they weren't straight forward with you. Perhaps because it sounded like a more complicated surgical procedure but they should have at least been able to explain what the cover would be for each scenario or procedure code.

I can only speak from my own experience with VHI which has only been for day cases but it was very straightforward and clear confirming my cover. You can even web chat them on the app and it saves a copy of the all the chats. It should be quite a black & white set of questions checked by the insurer. Is the consultant a participating consultant? Is the procedure code covered? Is the hospital covered? What is the excess for that hospital (or procedure if it's a special procedure)? They should tell you exactly what the excess will be and maybe throw in a disclaimer about pre existing conditions if that applies.
 
Sue Ellen said:
Your experience regarding the surgery and confirmation sounds as horrific as my relatives one which was in the Mater Private also :(
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Just to be clear, the issue here was with Irish Life not being willing or able to give me clarification in advance about what exactly was or was not covered. Neither the consultant/surgeon nor the Mater Private were at fault. As I say, in the end, practically everything was covered but it would've been a lot less stressful to know that a priori. Maybe I was just unlucky with the people that I got on the phone. They really weren't the best generally to be honest... :(

Thanks @Starrynights - the procedure in question wasn't that esoteric to be honest.
 
Starrynights said:
Cheapest corporate plans on the market are Laya Inspire and VHI PMI 52 10. Sue mentioned PMI 0710 above which is a very good option. At that price Company plan plus level 1.3 is also a good option.
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Thanks again @Starrynights (and @Sue Ellen).
I've looked at the above and a few others (apropos of the RTE slot mentioned earlier) and used the HIA site to compare and am currently leaning towards switching to Laya Inspire.
 
Changed my mind after some more research and am now likely to switch to VHI PMI 52 10. (Didn't like the per day rather than per claim excesses for some private hospital cover). But one more concern. I am likely to start treatment (for something covered by both policies) under the Irish Life policy and continue treatment under the VHI policy. Could that be a problem that would mean that I should stick with Irish Life for the next year or is it ok to switch cover while in the middle of treatment?
 
ClubMan said:
I am likely to start treatment (for something covered by both policies) under the Irish Life policy and continue treatment under the VHI policy. Could that be a problem that would mean that I should stick with Irish Life for the next year or is it ok to switch cover while in the middle of treatment?
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Me being a cowardy custard I certainly would not be keen on the timing of that move. Just my opinion but I would be inclined to stay with Irish Life until the treatment is finished.
 
I understand @Sue Ellen but I would really like to switch if at all possible so am curious if it's an know issue to do so while treatment is ongoing or is perfectly manageable.
 
ClubMan said:
I understand @Sue Ellen but I would really like to switch if at all possible so am curious if it's an know issue to do so while treatment is ongoing or is perfectly manageable.
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It's only as much of issue as either insurer makes it. Officially you have every right to switch at renewal regardless of the treatments you're getting. As you are getting treatment you probably have your procedure codes handy. Might be worth checking with the VHI if that code in particular is covered. You can be completely open with them that you want to switch to 52 10 and that is the treatment you are currently getting. They can't discriminate based on future claims. All that matters is that the plan covers it. Where some issue may lie is which part of the the treatment does each insurer cover. Ie. Irish life up to renewal, VHI after start date. But that's up to the insurers to sort out with the hospital. This is where you might get some grief being thrown back and forth in a they should cover it, not us scenario, with the hospital potentially looking at you to pay up in the mean time. But ultimately the insurers should cover it as long as the plans cover it.
Bear in mind VHI 52 10 only covers 90% of inpatient non cardiac special procedures (FPP's). Whereas I believe Irish life 4D health 2 covers 100% of their special procedures. This is why I highly advise you give your treatment procedure code to VHI to check if it is one of the more complex special procedures, or perhaps you may already know this yourself.
 
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