Chain Sale, last seller now won't budge..

[vincentgav]

Hi There,

Bit of a confusing one here.

We're contracts exchanged in a 3 party exchange sale and were due to close the purchase of our house on Monday gone by. Our solicitor has been trying to reach the vendors solicitor and get an update, it's finally come.

The people we're buying from were all ready to move and get things going on their side, as said, we were due to close Monday and that passed, a lot of emails and calls were made and eventually we have an update. The people THEY are buying from have said that they're now not interested in moving before xmas, so they're refusing to close on their side until 'Mid January, maybe late January'.

We're stuck here now, 2 families, with nowhere to go. It seems the only option that we have is to issue a 28 day letter to our vendor to close. We don't want to put the pressure on them, but what can we do? It's not their fault, the person they are buying from have been entitled and delayed for nonsensical selfish reasons from the off, but that's not really our problem either.

Should we speak to our vendor and ask them to put pressure on from their side?

What's likely to happen with our vendor, should we issue a 28 day notice? We just want to get into the house, been living with my parents now for months due to delays from their purchase.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Let's be clear on this

A is selling to B
B is selling to Vincent

A is refusing to close.
So B is refusing to close because they have nowhere to go.
So Vincent stays where he is.

That is the problem of chains. I don't think that there is much you can do about it.
Sure, issue a 28 day notice.
And force B to issue a 28 day notice to A.

Brendan

 

[vincentgav]

Let's be clear on this

A is selling to B
B is selling to Vincent

A is refusing to close.
So B is refusing to close because they have nowhere to go.
So Vincent stays where he is.

That is the problem of chains. I don't think that there is much you can do about it.
Sure, issue a 28 day notice.
And force B to issue a 28 day notice to A.

Brendan

Thanks Brendan,

That's what I want them to do really... A is a dreamer and gobsheen, he said he wanted to rehaggle with B and asked us if we were able to put it off for a couple of months already, then relented when we said we were walking away. We can't afford to wait until the end of January, so the 28 day notice is what we'll have to do.

It's not really our problem, we're already paying insurance bills on the house.

 

[Leo]

Are you 100% sure that B does not have a clause in the contract about it being subject to finance or close of their sale?

For the record, I had a similar issue on a previous purchase where the vendor wouldn't close after contracts exchanged. It took three months and 4-5k in legal fees for me to get that deal done, and that was without the complications of a chain.

 

[vincentgav]

Yes, there’s no condition. We’re certain.

Spoke to A today, he said ‘sorry, guess we can’t sell to you’. I told him he needed to speak to his solicitor from here in. His estate agent called and said he wants to relist in the new year. Estate agent called me asking what happened..

It seems now that the B wants to delay closing and A doesn’t realise or understand that they can’t just walk away and not sell now.. I asked A to go back and speak to B, he said he wasn’t interested, I told him he had to.. he says; ‘no, I won’t ask them cos I don’t think they’re interested’

‘… eh… sorry.. you can’t do that bub…’

Insane.

It seems the seller doesn’t realise what’s going on or what stage the sale is at. My solicitor asked me; ‘is this guy upset and confused or an eejit??’

Doesn’t realise that there’s no going back, he doesn’t understand what he’s doing or where he’s at, kept saying ‘B won’t sign, doesn’t want to sign’ but he has to be confused.

Anyway, the solicitor just said; ‘right, B isn’t your problem, we’re issuing the 28 day today, it’s too late’. Just amazing, never seen anything like it. Seems the bad news can totally cloud someone’s mind and rationality.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Are you sure that A and B have exchanged contracts for sale?

If you are sure, how are you sure? Has B's solicitor confirmed to your solicitor that contracts have been exchanged.

Sellers do change their mind after the contracts and just act thick, and often get away with it.

Contracts Exchanged, but vendor getting cold feet

hi everyone , i have not been on this site that much this past number of months. i went sale agreed on a three bedroom terraced town house in Limerick city last November ( 161k with contents ) , surveyor was very content with property , built sometime in the 1960,s anyway the EA ( Who ive...

www.askaboutmoney.com

Started posting here on the 21 March
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Contracts Exchanged, but vendor getting cold feet

Neither the brain injury nor the OP's subjective assessment is relevant here . The contract was signed by someone presumably of sound mind who seems to be getting cold feet for whatever reason. The question is what the OP should do. thanks coyote , i regret the trajectory this thread has...

www.askaboutmoney.com

 

[vincentgav]

Are you sure that A and B have exchanged contracts for sale?

If you are sure, how are you sure? Has B's solicitor confirmed to your solicitor that contracts have been exchanged.

Sellers do change their mind after the contracts and just act thick, and often get away with it.

Contracts Exchanged, but vendor getting cold feet

hi everyone , i have not been on this site that much this past number of months. i went sale agreed on a three bedroom terraced town house in Limerick city last November ( 161k with contents ) , surveyor was very content with property , built sometime in the 1960,s anyway the EA ( Who ive...

www.askaboutmoney.com

Started posting here on the 21 March
and the buyer realised that he could not enforce the contract on 29th June.

Contracts Exchanged, but vendor getting cold feet

Neither the brain injury nor the OP's subjective assessment is relevant here . The contract was signed by someone presumably of sound mind who seems to be getting cold feet for whatever reason. The question is what the OP should do. thanks coyote , i regret the trajectory this thread has...

www.askaboutmoney.com

We’re not sure is A and B have exchanged but my solicitor knows B’s solicitor for years and can’t believe he would omit that, can’t believe it. We’re awaiting their confirmation.

The seller’s behaviour to date indicates he’s just moody and stubborn and throws in the towel at any difficulty and tries to stop the whole thing. (We tried haggling at the start and he tried to say he didn’t want to sell to us) After speaking to him he seems timid and wayward, but we’re too far along.

We’re at the closing stage, but there’s no ABI in this case, I appreciate the link though, interesting. In that case there was obviously a raised concern of a possibility that he wasn’t of capacity to sign, which was understandable and correct, if there was a doubt this person was 'capable'. Like selling a phone contract to an elderly person, reduced capacity etc.

It seems he’s unaware and easily dejected, we’ll have to see what his solicitor says. The 28 day being issued is valid however, so it’s most likely that he’s confused about what stage he’s at. Also didn’t understand when we suggested it was just the closing date for A and B that was delayed rather than ‘off’, which was what his solicitor said.

I think he needs to be talked down again, delayed closing doesn’t mean you can tear the whole thing down.

 

[DeeKie]

You need to find out the status of the first step definitively. However let’s say there is no contract. Is seems B agreed to sell their house without protecting themselves from the first step falling through? Their problem. You can still buy the house?

 

[vincentgav]

You need to find out the status of the first step definitively.

Yeah, got to wait until Monday, but we're all (agents, solicitors) been calling each other asking what the hell is going on. We're all certain the closing day for both was the same, B is mistaken.

However let’s say there is no contract. Is seems B agreed to sell their house without protecting themselves from the first step falling through?

We went back and forth for weeks and weeks lining up closing dates to match, where else was he going to be going if he closed with me..? A hotel? His solicitor is long established, there's no way he would have sent a contract without a condition for it without that being the case. I think this guy doesn't get what's going on, the terminology. Saying yesterday that he's fed up and wants to just call the whole thing off with a text message indicates strongly that he's not dialled in at all.

Their problem. You can still buy the house?

I want to, I've given every single thing and they've given nothing. I've given extensions to closing, more time, more money, I agreed to every request, made concessions, agreed to tolerate caretaker agreements. I moved out of my rental in September, this was delayed and still I stayed calm and agreeable, even when he wanted to bar me from buying the house for asking about the boiler.... I'm not going to facilitate any more nonsense, I've given enough, I don't care where they go now.

We've missed the closing date, we're way beyond calling it off. The sheer neck is what makes me think he's confused, either that or he's just the most entitled selfish person ever. I don't want to assume he is, I'll assume he's emotional and tired of it all, but if I'm wrong, my patience is at an end.

 

[DeeKie]

Ok. Don’t get too emotional. Go talk to your solicitor about your legal options. Don’t let the solicitor”s relationships get in the way of anything either. Know your options and ask how things will play out.

 

[vincentgav]

Ok, so the solicitor reverted. It turns out that buying another place was a condition in the letter that the solicitor sent but not in the contract..

So now it seems that party A have been dealt with by the solicitors before and he doesn't trust them to move in January.

We're bound to B, he can't really walk away from us. We can walk away, but what can we do if A won't budge?

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Vincent

You will need to specify which letters and which contracts.

What happens between A and B is of no legal interest to you.
B is obliged to sell to you whether they can buy from A or not.
You might find that takes a bit of time to enforce, but you will be able to enforce it assuming your contract with B is clear.

But buying a house is extremely stressful. Your solicitor should have warned you that doing a chain exchange of contracts was very unlikely to work out.

You have to take a deep breath and count to at least 100.

Brendan

 

[vincentgav]

You have to take a deep breath and count to at least 100.

We've done that, I took a 2 hour walk and I'm calm.

Vincent

You will need to specify which letters and which contracts.

Ok, I appreciate your reading my info, I'll try be as clear and concise as I can be. To paraphrase, what my solicitor said was; 'The contract itself doesn't stipulate that B completing his new purchase is a condition of closing, but the letter that came with it from B's Solicitor says that it's conditional upon him completing his purchase.'

What that letter was I don't know, to my assumption it's either a side note or a cover letter that was sent with the contracts. My solicitor has said that 'Neither A or B's solicitor's are going to close when his client has nowhere to go to.'

What happens between A and B is of no legal interest to you.
B is obliged to sell to you whether they can buy from A or not.
You might find that takes a bit of time to enforce, but you will be able to enforce it assuming your contract with B is clear.

I'll paraphrase again, the gist of what my solicitor said;

'A are digging their heels in and won't move before xmas and B's solicitor has dealt with them before, he said they've done the exact same thing. There's not much he can do. They could try a 28 day from B's solicitors here, but what if they don't go? A judge is very unlikely to throw them out and force them to leave with nowhere to go'

But buying a house is extremely stressful. Your solicitor should have warned you that doing a chain exchange of contracts was very unlikely to work out.

They never said it was unlikely to work out. Difficult perhaps, but not unlikely or slim chance, etc.

If you've more questions please ask, I'm asking myself what this letter is, and if such a letter is part of the contract when it's not written in the contract that's signed.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

So you have a legally binding contract to buy from B.

But B's solicitor sent a letter to your solicitor, telling him that B would not be moving out until he has moved into A.

Did your solicitor not advise you of that upfront?

I have no idea what the legal position is. You signed a contract without knowing about that letter?

I think you need to settle in wherever you are now and forget about moving until A is good and ready.

Brendan

 

[vincentgav]

Yeah, I didn’t know about the letter. No idea it was all dependent on him getting somewhere.

 

[DeeKie]

I don’t think that the letter has legal status. I bet you that your contract has a “four corners” clause, also called an entire agreement clause, stating that no other document or correspondence will be taken account of. Does it? If you want something to be binding you have to add it to the contract…

 

[vincentgav]

I don’t think that the letter has legal status. I bet you that your contract has a “four corners” clause, also called an entire agreement clause, stating that no other document or correspondence will be taken account of. Does it? If you want something to be binding you have to add it to the contract…

I would think so. Couldn’t letters come up in the future that someone didn’t know about? If it’s not in the contract then how binding is it?

There’s nothing about four corners, no. There is one special condition, that I have mortgage approval.

The solicitor says that it’s an older fashioned way of doing it, that’s it’s not in the contract but in the cover letter.. that apparently this is legit.

So now it’s possible that we’re legally bound to buy this house, contracts exchanged with A, but if this letter is binding, then then our seller doesn’t have to sell to us it if his own purchase doesn’t go through.

If that’s the case then it’s a one sided contract against us. It seems it may have this condition that we would have absolutely insisted upon removing. We would have never had it cos it allows our vendor to drag us along with no enforcement power for us at all, essentially.

I’m worried now that my solicitor has potentially committed a malpractice by;

1. Not advising us of this onerous condition and leaving us in a place of weakened security.
2. Telling us to draw down last week. (We thankfully were told of this and called bank and halted it today on receipt of this news)
3. Allowed us to sign without knowing the correct implications for us.

 

[Páid]

The people THEY are buying from have said that they're now not interested in moving before xmas, so they're refusing to close on their side until 'Mid January, maybe late January'.

We're bound to B, he can't really walk away from us. We can walk away, but what can we do if A won't budge?

Is buying a different house an option? You could invest your time an energy in that instead of all the hassle with A & B. If you line up somewhere else then you could walk away in late January when A is finally ready to move.

 

[vincentgav]

I can’t, if it’s the case that I’m bound to B..

 

[dubdub123]

Contracts may not have exchanged as yet between A and B as party B may need to use the equity in their house sale to use as a deposit. Do you have this information as yet?

What are the sellers proposing to do now (party B)? ARe they requesting that closing date move to January? For what reason do you believe party A will pull out?

I'd recommend making an appointment with your own solicitor, armed with questions to see exactly where you stand legally. Is that letter binding? If so why was it not brought to your attention? Was there some lack of preparedness here as solicitors know each other ?

There will be issues particularly in a chain, and it is incredibly difficult to get sale/purchase through on the same day, however it can be done.