Opinion CBI: increase tax on property and savings

fistophobia

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I broadly agree, increase property tax - one way to cool down the property market.
May not help the squeezed middle, but its fairer tax.

Increase tax on savings? Finance bill allows for further decreases in DIRT, so what is CBI on about?
 

noproblem

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A very easy way out and will crucify the ordinary citizen. People living in cities might find it unfair for property tax and as for more tax on savings? One way might be to have a look at inheritance taxes and no tax on selling your principal private residence. The latter is certainly being used as a tool to accumulate capital and it's wrong.
 

odyssey06

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How will an increased property tax cool down the property market?
House prices are going up and up, that isn't cooling it down so why would an increase in property tax?

How does an increase tax on savings cool down an economy?
If the money isn 't put into savings what does the CBI will happen to it?
Wouldn't more savings take money out of the economy and cool it down?

I agree, what is the CBI on about? This isn't the first time I've said that about the CBI.
 

fistophobia

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Measures to avoid austerity in the future, by creating budget surplus.
Increased property tax is part of the troika arrangement - government keep kicking can down the road.
Some people are paying very little property tax.
 

Purple

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Whatever the details we need to decrease the taxes on work (wealth creation). If that means new taxes on wealth accumulation then so be it but I'd rather see property taxes increased and real taxes on the hoarding of building land.
 

Gordon Gekko

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How exactly are punitive property taxes fair? I spoke with my friend’s parents over the weekend. They live in a large house on their own and live reasonably comfortably on what I would describe as modest fixed pension incomes.

An increase in their already large property tax bill would hit them hard. Why don’t they sell up you might ask? I have asked that very question; one of their main passions is gardening and they have spent 40 years working on their garden. They don’t want to give that up, nor should they have to in my view. The purchase of the house was also funded at a time when tax rates were even higher than they are now and mortgage rates were sky-high. They also really enjoy seeing their grandchildren playing in the garden which is far larger then their kids’ gardens.

It is also relevant that the State will fill its boots with CAT when the property is inherited.

I am not convinced of the merits of targeting property taxes.
 

Purple

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In the longer term property taxes reduce house prices. They also encourage empty-nesters to move out of family homes which can then be occupied by families. The social infrastructure, particularly schools, doesn't have to be duplicated around the country as often etc.
I spoke with my friend’s parents over the weekend. They live in a large house on their own and live reasonably comfortably on what I would describe as modest fixed pension incomes.
They enjoy State pensions and perks which their children and their grandchildren won't even dream of. When their private pension funds would have been wiped out after the financial crisis their children and grandchildren bailed them out. When their savings were threatened their children and grandchildren guaranteed them. If they bought their house during a period of high taxed and high interest rates then they also bought during a period of very low prices and high inflation. Their children and grandchildren could have their own big garden to play in every day if more older people downsized.
 

Gordon Gekko

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Maybe, but I believe that “wealthy” empty nesters are a soft target. There is plenty of land which should be aggressively targeted; examples would include the following:

- Montrose; forget the portion sold to Cairn. Why is tv production taking place on the most valuable land in the State?

- Liam Cosgrave’s back garden; why in God’s name was a man in his 90s allowed to sit on 16 acres of zoned residential land in Knocklyon in the midst of a housing crisis? A few hundred yards away, there’s a battle going on over attempts to build on one of Knocklyon United’s football pitches!

We should be going after the State, the State’s bedfellows, and the Church in terms of housing before we go after “empty-nesters” who’ve paid their way.
 

T McGibney

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- Liam Cosgrave’s back garden; why in God’s name was a man in his 90s allowed to sit on 16 acres of zoned residential land in Knocklyon in the midst of a housing crisis? A few hundred yards away, there’s a battle going on over attempts to build on one of Knocklyon United’s football pitches!
Because he owned it.

...and the Church ...
They own it too.

Marxism solves nothing, especially crises which it itself causes.
 

noproblem

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How exactly are punitive property taxes fair? I spoke with my friend’s parents over the weekend. They live in a large house on their own and live reasonably comfortably on what I would describe as modest fixed pension incomes.

An increase in their already large property tax bill would hit them hard. Why don’t they sell up you might ask? I have asked that very question; one of their main passions is gardening and they have spent 40 years working on their garden. They don’t want to give that up, nor should they have to in my view. The purchase of the house was also funded at a time when tax rates were even higher than they are now and mortgage rates were sky-high. They also really enjoy seeing their grandchildren playing in the garden which is far larger then their kids’ gardens.

It is also relevant that the State will fill its boots with CAT when the property is inherited.

I am not convinced of the merits of targeting property taxes.
Not certain of your expectation that the state will fill its boots with CAT when inherited. There are ways to avoid/evade this and like I mentioned earlier that's one of the problems out there today.
 

RETIRED2017

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Maybe, but I believe that “wealthy” empty nesters are a soft target. There is plenty of land which should be aggressively targeted; examples would include the following:

- Montrose; forget the portion sold to Cairn. Why is tv production taking place on the most valuable land in the State?

- Liam Cosgrave’s back garden; why in God’s name was a man in his 90s allowed to sit on 16 acres of zoned residential land in Knocklyon in the midst of a housing crisis? A few hundred yards away, there’s a battle going on over attempts to build on one of Knocklyon United’s football pitches!

We should be going after the State, the State’s bedfellows, and the Church in terms of housing before we go after “empty-nesters” who’ve paid their way.
I did ask who are the real loony lefto_O
 

Sarenco

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People seem to be getting very worked up about something that hasn't actually happened.

Again, the CBI has not called for increases to taxes on property and savings.
 

RETIRED2017

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In the longer term property taxes reduce house prices. They also encourage empty-nesters to move out of family homes which can then be occupied by families. The social infrastructure, particularly schools, doesn't have to be duplicated around the country as often etc.

They enjoy State pensions and perks which their children and their grandchildren won't even dream of. When their private pension funds would have been wiped out after the financial crisis their children and grandchildren bailed them out. When their savings were threatened their children and grandchildren guaranteed them. If they bought their house during a period of high taxed and high interest rates then they also bought during a period of very low prices and high inflation. Their children and grandchildren could have their own big garden to play in every day if more older people downsized.
If they were PAYE the seen around 19 % of there payroll taken through PRSI from the time the started work up until around 2010
When I see the likes of this I ask myself who are the real loony left,
It was your age group who were out marching against water charges, You are going to have to get used of paying high taxes like the people now retired did ,
 
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Gordon Gekko

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Because he owned it.



They own it too.

Marxism solves nothing, especially crises which it itself causes.
I’m not advocating Marxism (Christ, the thought of it!).

My point is that a narrative is developing around empty nesters and potential policy changes to motivate them to sell; in my view, it would make more sense to introduce policies which target assets such as the late Mr Cosgrave’s and Montrose.
 

T McGibney

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I’m not advocating Marxism (Christ, the thought of it!).

My point is that a narrative is developing around empty nesters and potential policy changes to motivate them to sell; in my view, it would make more sense to introduce policies which target assets such as the late Mr Cosgrave’s and Montrose.
There's something more than faintly Marxist about "targeting" assets held by a 90+ year old, more still when it is focused on a man who acted bravely and at considerable personal risk to himself to save the State from dark forces over 40 years ago.
 

RETIRED2017

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I’m not advocating Marxism (Christ, the thought of it!).

My point is that a narrative is developing around empty nesters and potential policy changes to motivate them to sell; in my view, it would make more sense to introduce policies which target assets such as the late Mr Cosgrave’s and Montrose.
If they come after Montrose today by dinner time it will be Gordon Gekko turn,
 

odyssey06

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People seem to be getting very worked up about something that hasn't actually happened.
Again, the CBI has not called for increases to taxes on property and savings.
A signal is being sent though and a "narrative" is developing (ref Gordon Gekko) to give cover to a government who wants to do it.
 

RETIRED2017

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A signal is being sent though and a "narrative" is developing (ref Gordon Gekko) to give cover to a government who wants to do it.
I Would say will do it, Just look at the cheer leaders it is a no brainer for no brainers,:)
 
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