All of the rights we take for granted in our 'democracy' were concessions demanded and won by either the Trade Union movement internationally or campaigning political groups. It would never the case that a group of kind hearted Capitalists had a chat about the inequality staring them in the face and made decisions to change their world for the better.
The 8 hour working day
The 5 day working week
Obolition of Child Labour
Security of Employment
Pay Equality
Universal Healthcare
Universal Sufferage
Old Age Pensions
Free and Transparant Elections
and so on
None of the above were handed to us on a plate, yet so many of us take them for granted and sneer at the workings of the TU movement, would never blink before crossing an official picket line, failing to make it to the polling station on the day of an election...I guess we believe the Boss has our true interest at heart after all!?
No, actually. The rest of Europe made up its mind about the usefulness of "Communist and socialist ideals" about 20 years ago. Not our Billy.
Please tell me that you don't believe that everyone has an equal chance of 'making it'? Do you believe that, oh let's say Gavin O'Reilly had an equal chance of 'making it' as [broken link removed]?No system is perfect but capitalism allows anyone to make and create wealth - no-one is excluded from 'making it'.
Do you believe that, oh let's say Gavin O'Reilly had an equal chance of 'making it' as [broken link removed]?
More and more I think the key to achieving something close to the ideal that is democracy is education. And I don't just mean literacy or mathematical ability. I mean general knowledge, and the elimination of ignorance. Some countries (which I won't name) believe that keeping a population ignorant is a good means of control. That may be true, but it is short term thinking, and will not propel a country forward on the route to sustainable greatness. Most empires have fallen when their populations have become complacent, lazy and ignorant. Democracy cannot flourish without an educated, knowledgeable and smart citizenry.
Oh and I guess you might consider informing the voters of UK, Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria, several of the Nordic countries, Hungary and probably many other countries that "The rest of Europe made up its mind about the usefulness of "Communist and socialist ideals" about 20 years ago", as these countries have all voted in socialist governments in the past ten years or so. Perhaps they missed your memo?
I wasn’t aware that any of these countries were communist (perhaps I missed the memo?). Some of them have social democratic governments but none of them are socialist states.Oh and I guess you might consider informing the voters of UK, Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria, several of the Nordic countries, Hungary and probably many other countries that "The rest of Europe made up its mind about the usefulness of "Communist and socialist ideals" about 20 years ago", as these countries have all voted in socialist governments in the past ten years or so. Perhaps they missed your memo?
I wasn’t aware that any of these countries were communist (perhaps I missed the memo?). Some of them have social democratic governments but none of them are socialist states.
Plenty wrong with socialism if you go by Bertie's legacy
I wouldn't be the world's biggest fan of New Labour (and indeed your oul friend Billy was pretty scathing about Irish Labour going 'New' just as the UK counterparts are starting to straighten out), but I guess that most of the UK electorate are smart enough to twig the connection between the Labour Party and socialist ideals.I cannot speak for the other countries you mention but if New Labour had told the UK electorate that they were voting for socialism, not to mention "Communist and socialist ideals", the Tories would still be in power.
True...bad example of socialism at work
Dear lord, please don't tell me that anyone seriously believes that Bertie's legacy of a two-tier health health system, a hugely inflated property bubble, and a 'light touch' regulatory environment over financial services has anything to do with socialism.Plenty wrong with socialism if you go by Bertie's legacy
Of course not, if we had real socialism we'd live in an egalitarian utopia, just like the other socialist countries such as... oops!Dear lord, please don't tell me that anyone seriously believes that Bertie's legacy of a two-tier health health system, a hugely inflated property bubble, and a 'light touch' regulatory environment over financial services has anything to do with socialism.
I wouldn't be the world's biggest fan of New Labour (and indeed your oul friend Billy was pretty scathing about Irish Labour going 'New' just as the UK counterparts are starting to straighten out), but I guess that most of the UK electorate are smart enough to twig the connection between the Labour Party and socialist ideals.
Simply to expose the gaping hole in your claim that "The rest of Europe made up its mind about the usefulness of "Communist and socialist ideals" about 20 years ago". I accept that Communism isn't top of many people's lists, but socialism is alive and thriving across much of Europe, thanks very much. And even the USA have taken a big step to the left (though I'm not claiming that Obama or the the Democrats are socialists).I don't understand then why you cited the UK as a country which had "voted in socialist governments in the past ten years or so"
I cannot speak for the other countries you mention but if New Labour had told the UK electorate that they were voting for socialism, not to mention "Communist and socialist ideals", the Tories would still be in power.
See this post.At the risk of boring everyone I can only repeat:
Ditto Obama and US voters.
Nothing wrong with Socialism, per se....it's when it mutated into Communism that the problems began.
Since I've heard similar comments voiced on numerous occasions perhaps somebody would care to outline the basic difference between communism and socialism for me?
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