Can wine in a screw topped bottle be "corked"?

bren1916 said:
http://www.vinography.com/archives/2010/07/let_sommeliers_do_their_jobs.html

Perhaps he refers to you Sunny in paragraph 6....
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The guy isn't even a sommelier. The anology with the chef tasting the sauce is stupid. I would expect the winemaker to taste the wine as he makes it. I wouldn't expect the chef to come out to the table and stick his fork into my sauce to see if still tastes ok on the plate. I have never seen it and I wouldn't like it. The only time I have seen sommeliers taste wine is when customers have asked if it is corked.

Like I say, have you ever seen it?
 
Saw it once from afar, it did strike me as odd though, somm took a sip then brought the wine over to the table and then offered a taste to one of the diners. Maybe the customer asked the somm to check it first?

Seems to be common enough in Europe according to this:

“Few issues of wine etiquette seem to cause as much consternation as the increasingly common practice of a sommelier taking a small sip of wine, usually unbidden, to test for soundness. Diners often are surprised to learn that their bottle has in effect been shared with the restaurant, even if it’s just the smallest amount.”

http://www.1winedude.com/index.php/...p-should-sommeliers-taste-your-wine-purchase/
 
I would have no problem with a sommelier asking if we would like him to taste the wine first but I would be annoyed if they tasted it without asking. They shouldn't even be opening the bottle away from the table.

Maybe it has been going on and I haven't noticed.
 
Sunny said:
The anology with the chef tasting the sauce is stupid. I wouldn't expect the chef to come out to the table and stick his fork into my sauce to see if still tastes ok on the plate.
Like I say, have you ever seen it?
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Yours is indeed a much more appropriate analogy..and yes I have seen it.

"I would expect the winemaker to taste the wine as he makes it".

The wine does not become 'corked' until after the bottle is sealed..
 
bren1916 said:
Yours is indeed a much more appropriate analogy..and yes I have seen it.

"I would expect the winemaker to taste the wine as he makes it".

The wine does not become 'corked' until after the bottle is sealed..
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Really?

A chef puts the food on the plate. He doesn't then come out to the table and sticks his fork in to make sure it is still hot by the time it gets to me. Or get the waiter to test the food to see how it tastes before I start eating

I am genuinely curious where you saw it. A colleague saw it once in a restaurant in Milan but was asked by the sommelier if she wanted him to taste it and she was also given a taste.

I think the idea is interesting but I like I say, I have never seen a bottle of wine opened away from the table and then just poured straight into everyones glasses without the customer getting a taste.
 
Sunny said:
A chef puts the food on the plate. He doesn't then come out to the table and sticks his fork in to make sure it is still hot by the time it gets to me. Or get the waiter to test the food to see how it tastes before I start eating
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I was in a nice restuarant in Dublin earlier in the year. There was no salt and pepper on any of the tables. I assumed the chef was confident that his food was perfectly seasoned so intentially did not have them out.
I was then in Chapter One a few weeks ago and there was salt and pepper on the tables.
I was wondering if this is the norm in high end restaurants.
 
Shawady said:
I was in a nice restuarant in Dublin earlier in the year. There was no salt and pepper on any of the tables. I assumed the chef was confident that his food was perfectly seasoned so intentially did not have them out.
I was then in Chapter One a few weeks ago and there was salt and pepper on the tables.
I was wondering if this is the norm in high end restaurants.
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I have seen it both ways.

Just don't order chips. :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thornton's_Restaurant
 
bren1916 said:
Just as a caveat:

Wine would always be poured straight out to glass in any worthwhile 5 star restaurant.They would never allow a corked wine near a table as it would automatically have been 'tasted' by a resident taster upon opening..
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Just for what it is worth, I trained as a sommelier, although I haven't worked as one in almost 7 years. I worked in both the US and in Ireland. Bren1916's comment above isn't really accurate.

In Ireland, I would never, ever have opened and tasted a wine away from the table unless I was sure the customer wanted me to. If a wine is corked, you won't need to taste it - you'll be able to tell the moment you pull the cork out of the bottle.

If it is otherwise tainted, then that will only be ascertained from tasting, but I wouldn't do this unless I had cleared it with the customer.

If it was a high-risk, expensive wine, like a particularly old Bordeaux or Burgundy, then I would offer to taste it for them, just to be sure. If they agreed, I would do it at the table in front of the customer and I would not use a spitoon - I would swallow it.

Sometimes, I would pour a tiny, tiny sip of the wine into an extra glass (sometimes without asking) and inspect it visually (colour tinges around the edges etc...), but again, always in front of the customer.

If the customer was known to me and liked me to taste their wines, or if the table was ordering a second or third bottle of one they had previously tatsed, then I might taste without asking. It might depend on how much trust they were putting in me. But again, everything would done at the table in front of the customer. A decent sommelier would never open or decant a wine away from the table. They shouldn't taste away either, in my opinion.

If a customer complained a wine was corked, then I would automatically taste it. If they believed it was corked or tainted, and I could clearly tell that it wasn't, then you are in an awkward spot. You make a judgement call - if it is a €40 bottle, then you just take the hit and tell the customer that you are not certain there is anything wrong with it, but you will happily replace it anyway. If it is a €500 vintage Margaux, then you must stand your ground. But most people who drink €500 Margaux know their wines, so there is usually no problem.

In some top restaurants in the US, the sommeliers might taste the wines without asking - I have seen it done, particularly in one restaurant in Philly I worked in - but I abhor the practice. I would not have said it was standard practice for all sommeliers.

Not giving cutomers the choice and sipping their wine without their permission creates an overbearing air of exclusivity and authority that I presonally am not comfortable with. Yes, customers pay for a sommelier's knowledge, but not their ego.
 
Riad bsc- my original question

What are the chances that a screw topped bottle of wine would have gone off, > or< a bottle with a cork??
 
anastasiablu said:
What are the chances that a screw topped bottle of wine would have gone off, > or< a bottle with a cork??
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There are estimates that anywhere up to 10% of wines with corks could be corked or otherwise tainted (to varying degrees).... screw caps obviously don't get corked... but can still get tainted or oxidised.
 
There must be something wrong with my palate. I don't find issues with anything like 10% of the bottles I open: more like 1%, perhaps a little over, but certainly less than 2%.
 
Padraigb said:
There must be something wrong with my palate. I don't find issues with anything like 10% of the bottles I open: more like 1%, perhaps a little over, but certainly less than 2%.
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There doesn't seem to be any authorative figures out there, but most seem to be in or around the 3-8%, 10% would be the max I've seen.

But there are degrees of taint, and just because TCAs are present doesn't mean you'll notice. Some people are also more sensitive to it.
 
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