Can the preaching stop please

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torblednam

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I'm one of the preachers on that thread. The OP on that thread, like others, wants the easy option financially and is willing the kick the consequences down the road.

A lot of people don't seem to want to save for anything anymore. Get it on the never never and it will be grand.

People come on AAM looking for financial advice - they should expect (and accept) a little bit of preaching.
You've made your view on that abundantly clear Paddy, as have others. If that's how Brendan and the mods are happy for the site to run then that's their decision, but they can expect that people with a straightforward question to ask will not ask it here if they are fair game to be harangued and condescended to, rather than simply have their question answered.
 

AlbacoreA

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I often find people in an advantageous position will preach to those who are not. Usually because they've never been in the difficulty as the latter person, or if they have, had forgotten about it. People memories can be quite short when it suits them, or perhaps just how the mind works.

I thought this thread would be about that. But I don't find the examples given that preachy. Pity. Its an interesting subject.
 

AlbacoreA

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...A lot of people don't seem to want to save for anything anymore. Get it on the never never and it will be grand....
You mean people who borrow to sustain a higher lifestyle than they can afford. But ignoring those, there are others who genuinely can't save as they are barely keeping their head above water. I think its not always useful to lump them all together.
 

Brendan Burgess

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Hi mandlebrot

There is nothing remotely preachy about those replies. This guy who says he is on a good salary is borrowing money at 137% APR.

What are we supposed to do?

Ignore all that? I really don't think so.

By the way, you refer to another thread. I have not seen that other thread and maybe the other posters haven't either.

If someone asks a question about the most painless way to commit suicide, are we supposed to tell him that hanging isn't great, but a gun in the mouth is more efficient, but a bit messy for his relatives to clean up afterwards? I think it would be better to suggest to him to seek professional advice.

Bronte, derek and gnf and others were absolutely right to question the advisability of a high earner to borrow €5k to spend on a holiday in March.

Brendan
 

Bronte

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This thread illustrates the ugly preachy side to AAM pretty well:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/possibility-of-getting-a-2k-loan-from-the-credit-union-after-joining.202303/

The forum is a Credit Union one, and the thread is specifically a query about whether / how OP can obtain a loan in a quick turnaround.

The majority of respondents, however, decided that the OP must be chastised over his evidently poor money management, which is completely off-topic in relation to the question posed. There's already plenty of scope to chastise him on his other thread, about that topic, but people couldn't resist dragging it into this thread too...
Some people need a wake up call. It is often the case on here that a seemingly simple question is a cover for a mega money management issue. Do you honestly think the right thing to do is to help that poster get the 5k for a holiday? I could have done that, but I actually held myself back, so as not to be too 'preachy' and didn't tell him to cancel the holiday, which is what he should have done.

This site is about money, about growing up, about borrowing wisely, not about patting people on the back and saying go for it. If a poster has poor money management skills, they need to be chastised for it. The whole world now is turned on its head as regards prudent money management skills, the constant debt practices of America, and that's the path to ruination and I'll make no bones about pointing out that dreadful culture that has swept Ireland and the UK in particular.

So I say 'prudent' to your 'chastisement.'
 
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torblednam

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Hi mandlebrot
Mandlewho? :)

There is nothing remotely preachy about those replies. This guy who says he is on a good salary is borrowing money at 137% APR.

What are we supposed to do?

Ignore all that? I really don't think so.
He says he has in the past borrowed money at exorbitant rates for convenience, and knows that it's nuts, hence his question. So people straying off topic (see posting guideline number 19! ;)) to expound a point he is already aware of, is unnecessary and condescending.

By the way, you refer to another thread. I have not seen that other thread and maybe the other posters haven't either.
Well Derek was the first to preach, and he linked to the other thread, which OP had started over in Money Makeover (where, by the way, I'd have no issue with him being preached at because that's the whole point of THAT forum!) - I can only assume from the content of subsequent posts (some of which contain detail that is in the OP's Money Makeover thread but not in his OP on the CU thread) that the posters had seen his other thread and decided to double dip on their preaching.

If someone asks a question about the most painless way to commit suicide, are we supposed to tell him that hanging isn't great, but a gun in the mouth is more efficient, but a bit messy for his relatives to clean up afterwards? I think it would be better to suggest to him to seek professional advice.
Not the same thing at all - we're not talking about someone who is plunging himself into unaffordable debt, but rather someone who just doesn't have a regular saving pattern built up - big deal, that's his choice and his right. He clearly wants to change that pattern, as is evident from his other thread in the money makeover forum. Some people are actually suggesting that the first thing he needs to do is cancel a holiday which he can quite clearly afford, in order to punish himself for not having paid for it out of savings...?! :rolleyes: Throwing away anything up to 2 or 3 thousand in order to avoid whatever the financing cost of his 2k shortfall is, sounds dafter to me than anything OP says in his posts!

Bronte, derek and gnf and others were absolutely right to question the advisability of a high earner to borrow €5k to spend on a holiday in March.
He's looking to finance 2k Brendan, if you read his OP - that's the amount he's short by. He is saying he has 3k of the 5k he needs, he's happy to lodge 3k to the CU in order to secure a 5k loan (presumably with the intention being to clear the 2k as quickly as he can and then use the 3k of shares to clear the balance). Given his income and ability to clear it quickly once he knuckles down, the on topic answer to his question would probably be that it's a toss up between doing that or seeing if his bank will give him a credit card / overdraft facility with a €2k limit.

Let's be realistic, the guy is going on his holidays - no amount of people here telling him not to is going to change that, to think otherwise is just silly - what he is proposing to do to finance the outstanding balance of the holiday is fairly sensible when you start from the position as it is now and without shoulda's and coulda's. The place for those, is on his money makeover thread.
 

gnf_ireland

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Let's be realistic, the guy is going on his holidays - no amount of people here telling him not to is going to change that, to think otherwise is just silly - what he is proposing to do to finance the outstanding balance of the holiday is fairly sensible when you start from the position as it is now and without shoulda's and coulda's.
That may be the case, but there is still another side to this holiday ask. He is a single guy going on holidays (no idea how long for). I assume at this stage the accommodation and flights have been paid for if he is committed to going. Where is he going and how long is he going for that he needs 5k spending money?

There is another way to finance his holiday - spend the 3k he has available to him and no more. Its called basic budgeting


I agree that the Money Makeover thread is probably a better place for the posts, but if I am honest I don't think the OP is serious about a money makeover. If they were, they would not be starting it by looking to spend 5k on a holiday and go into debt unnecessarily.

All most people said to the OP was to look at where he was spending it and look at cutting out unnecessary spending until the holiday. This is another means of financing one and I don't think it is unreasonable to start this.

Do you want people on here to answer his question with
"suggest you contact the CU and see what they say" ? I am not sure what the OP would get from this answer either !
 

Bronte

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He says he has in the past borrowed money at exorbitant rates for convenience, and knows that it's nuts, hence his question. So people straying off topic (see posting guideline number 19! ;)) to expound a point he is already aware of, is unnecessary and condescending.

.

I disagree with you. He said he should have by now 50K saved and instead he has 3K. Despite being on a good salary he committed to a holiday that he didn't have the money for. It is entirely necessary to point out that this is the wrong way to go about things. So he goes on holidays, he borrows to do so, he comes back from the holidays in debt, and instead of starting to save, he has to service debt. And by all accounts it's constant debt. The only positive thing is that he's staying away from the worst people of all to borrow from apart from loan sharks. The poster needs to rethink his whole spending pattern.

I have a feeling that he's have double the 50K if we added up how much he has paid to that 'money organisation' charging nearly 200%. Something seriously wrong if you go to those guys. It's madness really.
 

elcato

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He's looking to finance 2k Brendan, if you read his OP - that's the amount he's short by. He is saying he has 3k of the 5k he needs, he's happy to lodge 3k to the CU in order to secure a 5k loan (presumably with the intention being to clear the 2k as quickly as he can and then use the 3k of shares to clear the balance). Given his income and ability to clear it quickly once he knuckles down, the on topic answer to his question would probably be that it's a toss up between doing that or seeing if his bank will give him a credit card / overdraft facility with a €2k limit.
Why not post this on that thread as your advice so ? or maybe I'm preaching.
 

dereko1969

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This thread illustrates the ugly preachy side to AAM pretty well:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/possibility-of-getting-a-2k-loan-from-the-credit-union-after-joining.202303/

The forum is a Credit Union one, and the thread is specifically a query about whether / how OP can obtain a loan in a quick turnaround.

The majority of respondents, however, decided that the OP must be chastised over his evidently poor money management, which is completely off-topic in relation to the question posed. There's already plenty of scope to chastise him on his other thread, about that topic, but people couldn't resist dragging it into this thread too...
Do you really think it's preachy to use information gathered on another thread by the OP in that case to advise that rather than borrowing again, that he actually look at his spending patterns and examine how he keeps finding himself in the same position time and time again?
Should the advice when asked "will I get a loan from a credit union" not include the possibility of suggesting that maybe a loan isn't the best idea in the world?
What's the point in this site if these things aren't questioned?
Should it just be renamed tellmeimright.com?
 

torblednam

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That's grand so, if the "establishment" posters are happy for the site to run that way then fill your collective boots.

You have all responded pretty much exactly how I expected you would, and I don't mean that in a trolling way, just that I knew criticism would not be taken lightly.

The bottom line is, it appears it's ok to go off topic and not answer the question asked, as long as your post is providing sound financial advice / education to the person whose question you aren't answering... Maybe just tweak the posting guidelines then?
 

Bronte

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That's grand so, if the "establishment" posters are happy for the site to run that way then fill your collective boots.

You have all responded pretty much exactly how I expected you would, and I don't mean that in a trolling way, just that I knew criticism would not be taken lightly.

The bottom line is, it appears it's ok to go off topic and not answer the question asked, as long as your post is providing sound financial advice / education to the person whose question you aren't answering... Maybe just tweak the posting guidelines then?
Take that up with the management. LOL. Tell me this too, are you going to continue lambasting 'establisment' posters or are you going to actually help posters out with advice. Go on, go to the relevant thread and let's see your advice please.
 

Gerry Canning

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Folks ,

I think its fair nuff to say a fair few respondent posters are a bit opinionated ,but in fairness they don,t have hard agendas and I have found them mostly helpful and yes their biases can show , nothing much wrong with that !
 

torblednam

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From another thread, but many people would consider comments such as the above more offensive than some of the preachy comments referred to here.
Many would, would they?! How many?!

Context is everything Leo, and you just quoted that as if it was my entire post, and without any reference to the post it was in response to. Anyone who is interested can view the thread in question. And the response from the person I was addressing.

Always nice to be stalked though, shows me someone cares ;)
 

Leo

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Afraid I didn't take a survey, but probably similar numbers to those who have an issue with the perception of a preachy tone. It's all part and parcel of a forum such as this, it's only where they go too far we remove them. So your post, and lots of preachy ones remain. If we were to remove everything that could potentially cause offence, much valuable advice would be so watered down as to be worthless.

The quote links to your post, so anyone can see it in full context. Serves little purpose to quote the whole thing. Is there a context in which responding to another poster with 'Well meeee-ow!' isn't condescending?

If reading posts here is stalking, then don't feel too special, Mods read pretty much everything posted.
 
T

The Edge

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I have to say I'm disappointed you felt so bothered by my post, I was just trying to be helpful and explain the reason behind why it wouldn't work in light of the previous replies on your original post which of course I read.
I will admit, reporting it was over the top. I have been tetchy recently.

I stand by my view that the wording of your post wasn't particularly helpful. I am not up-to-date on tax (as you've probably gathered), but I can recall that there are, or at least were, certain reliefs that could be backdated and written off against income tax paid in previous years. So it seemed to me that it was not unreasonable to ask if health expenses were among them.
 
T

The Edge

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2. This is a financial site, and there are a lot of people in Ireland who have very strange relationships with money. As a nation we do not appear to be very financially savvy, and we seem to think that we have a right to be exempt from personal financial responsibility. When things get tricky, as a nation we put our head in the sand and hope they will go away until its normally too late (or close to it).
Those who are slightly more 'on the ball' come on here asking for advice - most don't want to hear what they are going to be told. Lots and lots I imagine look and never even post on here.
Being 'a bit preachy' means these people, by enlarge will no longer be willing to engage on here, and they are the ones probably in most need of financial advice.
Agree, but with regard to your comments on Irish people having 'very strange relationships with money', as Bronte says it's not just an Irish practice but also an Anglo/American one.
 
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