Can Solicitor visit elderly person in nursing home when no one present?

amc123 said:
Reason for post is to question solicitors actions no interest in what happens with will other siblings would be quite happy to let abusive sibling have house regardless of what's in will
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This entire debacle is beginning to stink. As previously posted, the making of a new will, witnessed by a competent solicitor and in the presence of a medic, ensuring the donor is of sound mind is important to all concerned. IMO the reason for the two solicitors arriving at the home was to ensure that anything that was signed was witnessed by a non related party.
 
Tkx Mercman but could I ask why it is NB to make a new will.

Know that current will was drafted 10 or 15 yrs ago. No idea whatsoever what it contains but genuinely do not care. For lots of reasons other siblings might actually prefer home to be left to the abusive sibling so that sibling can't bug them for maintenance repairs etc and they can have as little to do with that person also.

Also a feeling silly I know that for all that went on in home that there's a bad karma attached to anything to do with it! Other siblings really don't want anything so don't care if the will is changed only care about the way the solicitor acted.

Not sure even in spite of this they could convince parent to get a new solicitor as there is a long history with the principal of the firm - no longer involved.

I am just totally frustrated that they can act like this and will probably bear no consequences. It is the sort of thing that gives the profession a bad name.

Maybe the solution is for the other siblings to encourage the parent to change the will also and go for the fair deal scheme loan and leave the abusive sibling deal with it when revenue come looking for the money!
 
To label someone as an abuser is a terrible thing to do. I assume that this sibling was the one left to look after the elderly parent. Not an easy job. Some elderly people can play all members of a family for their own selfish gain or on the other hand want to please everyone so different family members are told different things.
I am surprised that nobody knows what's in the will, why not?
 
amc123 said:
Tkx Mercman but could I ask why it is NB to make a new will.
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What is a NB ?? On the subject of making a new will. this can be done as often as one wishes. It simply must be witnessed and time dated. The definition of a will should be examined in a dictionary. On doing so, you will note that it is to prescribe one's final wishes.

It does appear that a number of your siblings don't really care what is going on. Easy to say now, but I bet if they find nothing has been willed to them, the trouble will start. As the saying goes 'Where there's a will, there's a relative.
 
SoylentGreen said:
To label someone as an abuser is a terrible thing to do. I assume that this sibling was the one left to look after the elderly parent. Not an easy job. Some elderly people can play all members of a family for their own selfish gain or on the other hand want to please everyone so different family members are told different things.
I am surprised that nobody knows what's in the will, why not?
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Actually a very com
 
The solicitors were asked to call on the basis that this person wanted to make/change their will. They asked her if she wanted to and when she said she didn't, they left. There were two presumably because if she had in fact wanted to make/change a will two would have been needed as witnesses. I see no wrong doing here.

The fact that they had the code to the nursing home- so what? Solicitors call regularly to nursing homes for this very reason, to make wills, and local solicitors often have the codes. I have the code for some local nursing homes. There's nothing cloak and dagger about calling to a nursing home in broad daylight, having been asked to do so?

In relation to the fair deals scheme, you say she's already in it. So why sell the house, when the loan will be capped after the first three years?
 
amc123 said:
Yes I know it sounds bizarre but it happened there were two and they did sneak in using codes they had no right to have. It seems so bizarre to me which is why I am asking about the ethics and professional guidelines pertaining to the situation. No cloaks and daggers tho or at least I haven't been told but maybe the CCTV should be checked again!!!.
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This is ridiculous, the solicitors were given the code, were invited to the home to make a will and did not sneak in as you put it. It is not at all bizzare or unethical. What exactly have the two solicitors done wrong? People need to make wills all the time but more particulary when elderly, infirm and sorting their affairs when in a nursing home.

If as you state none of the rest of the family is worried about the family home then so what if the parent had made a will leaving the home to the abusive sibling. You've stated that the parent is mentally competant, is able and willing to pay all the bills for said sibling but still complains to her other children about a solicitors visit where nothing happened, no will was made etc.
 
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Bronte said:
If as you state none of the rest of the family is worried about the family home then so what if the parent had made a will leaving the home to the abusive sibling.
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This is what I was thinking. Nobody cares or knows what's in the will. So if it is changed what difference will it make?

"For lots of reasons other siblings might actually prefer home to be left to the abusive sibling so that sibling can't bug them for maintenance repairs etc and they can have as little to do with that person also"

I thought that the mother was paying all the bills? Nobody wants anything to do with this sibling (isolation/Bullying). So why would the sibling approach the other family members for maintenance, repairs etc
 
Ok a different opinion that's interesting and that why I asked here as we are trying to find out what ethical guidance that solicitors adhere to. As a non solicitor it seems completely unprofessional and unethical to me. Their client did not request a visit. They were asked to visit by a third party. They did not check if their client was medically fit for a visit. They are more than aware of the history of the situation and have in the past expressed concern to family members about the treatment of the parent as they would have witnessed this both on the phone and in person. If they had just contacted family and said they wanted to arrange this visit it would have been arranged with the help of nursing staff. Anyway not much we can do other than arrange to complain. As I said before it just really feels that the abuser found a way to continue the abuse and intimidation when we all thought the parent was safe from that and maybe it is a kneejerk reaction as we feel the solicitors should have known better.

Solvent green I am not sure from your post if you are saying that other family are intimidating and bullying the sibling in question and I know I should ignore the criticism but personally in life i have learned the hard way to avoid contact with anyone who directs physical and verbal abuse towards me I also feel the need to protect my family from anyone that could hurt them and this has even involved having to have the guards warn this person to not intimidate teenagers coming from school. i fully appreciate your sentiments and you clearly may be coming from an experience of being a carer and being put upon by other family but this is so not the situation here.

Thanks for the opinions.
 
Bronte said:
This is ridiculous, the solicitors were given the code, were invited to the home to make a will and did not sneak in as you put it. It is not at all bizzare or unethical. What exactly have the two solicitors done wrong? People need to make wills all the time but more particulary when elderly, infirm and sorting their affairs when in a nursing home.

If as you state none of the rest of the family is worried about the family home then so what if the parent had made a will leaving the home to the abusive sibling. You've stated that the parent is mentally competant, is able and willing to pay all the bills for said sibling but still complains to her other children about a solicitors visit where nothing happened, no will was made etc.
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The point is that they were not invited to the home or given the code by their client but by a third party. Surely they should ensure that their client wants them to visit. If nothing else would they not be concerned about sho is going to pay for their time ?
 
Vanilla said:
The solicitors were asked to call on the basis that this person wanted to make/change their will. They asked her if she wanted to and when she said she didn't, they left. There were two presumably because if she had in fact wanted to make/change a will two would have been needed as witnesses. I see no wrong doing here.

The fact that they had the code to the nursing home- so what? Solicitors call regularly to nursing homes for this very reason, to make wills, and local solicitors often have the codes. I have the code for some local nursing homes. There's nothing cloak and dagger about calling to a nursing home in broad daylight, having been asked to do so?

In relation to the fair deals scheme, you say she's already in it. So why sell the house, when the loan will be capped after the first three years?
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Some way will have to be found for the family home to cover the payment under the fair deal scheme and as I said no-one has had the energy to tackle this as a result of the emotionally draining last decade!! There are not enough funds to make the payment for the whole three years. Nobody is thinking straight as the situation is all still very raw and people just trying to remove from the horrors and get a grip on their own lives and concentrate on their own families again. There is no clear thought process as to how that is going to be managed yet. Other family members in counselling to try to deal with the family situation.
 
A solicitor has a duty of care to attend to make a will when asked to do so. It is often a third party who is asked to make the call to a solicitor as quite often an elderly person in a nursing home doesnt have access to a phone or just simply asks someone else to make the phone call/arrangement for them. If a solicitor doesn't go to make a will when requested to do so they can be sued for negligence. So when a solicitor is phoned and told someone wants to make a will they actually HAVE to go to see them within a reasonable time. Your suggestion that a solicitor should then ask other members of the family permission to call on their own client is not realistic. A solicitor also has a duty of confidentiality. Imagine a client asking a solicitor to call to make a will and then the solicitor tells the whole family about it!

I don't think you understand the fair deals scheme either. The whole premise is that repayment can be put off until after the death of the recipient and a charge is put on their property ( capped in the case of the family home after three years). So there should be no need to sell the house to pay.
 
Vanilla said:
A solicitor has a duty of care to attend to make a will when asked to do so. It is often a third party who is asked to make the call to a solicitor as quite often an elderly person in a nursing home doesnt have access to a phone or just simply asks someone else to make the phone call/arrangement for them. If a solicitor doesn't go to make a will when requested to do so they can be sued for negligence. So when a solicitor is phoned and told someone wants to make a will they actually HAVE to go to see them within a reasonable time. Your suggestion that a solicitor should then ask other members of the family permission to call on their own client is not realistic. A solicitor also has a duty of confidentiality. Imagine a client asking a solicitor to call to make a will and then the solicitor tells the whole family about it!

I don't think you understand the fair deals scheme either. The whole premise is that repayment can be put off until after the death of the recipient and a charge is put on their property ( capped in the case of the family home after three years). So there should be no need to sell the house to pay.
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Ok so they have to go even if they know they have already expressed concern about the person who made the request ? I accept there would be a confidentiality issue if they ask the family but should they really enter the home in the manner in which they did ? Should they not be more above board and check with the carers about the person's health. The parent was in a serious state of distress and got very confused about the visit and who they were. Maybe I set too much moral store on such things.

I do know about the option to defer payment by applying for the nursing home loan however there is no guidance about what happens when there is someone living in the home. The provision to defer payment only applies to a spouse so there was concern about the sibling living in the home which is why that option was not taken as despite everything there is a concern that the person might be forced out if they were not be willing to pay the amount due and we have not been able to find out what would happen then or who would be liable for the amount due. Presumably it is more clearcut in most situations.
 
amc123 said:
. Only human though and unwilling to let the abusive sibling away with making no contribution when they have never paid their own way in life and in fact has some of the parents funds under their control but parent can't or won't remember what happened to the funds.
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The parent can't or won't remember what happened to the funds suggests to me that the parent wants the rest of you to stop interrogating her.

Methinks that the sibling who "has never paid their own way in life" has had a robust relationship with her mother throughout the years whilst living under the same roof.

You say that there was physical abuse. How do you know?
 
Bronco Lane said:
Why did it take 10 years to get the mother in to a nursing home if everyone was so concerned?
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The OP asked for advice on the morals/ethics of a solicitor visiting an elderly person in a nursing home and not on the events in their family over the past 10 years. I’m sure it has been a very emotional period for all the family, and many questions have been asked. Families and the care of elderly is a mine-field and its not for any of us in an anonymous boards site to comment on how these issues were dealt with by the family.
In my opinion, the solicitors did not act professionally. They should have at least made themselves known to the nursing home management before visiting the patient. If they did somehow manage to get the parent to sign a new will I think the manner they used to get it signed would be questionable if it went to court.
 
amc123 said:
The parent was in a serious state of distress and got very confused about the visit and who they were.
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Is the sibling who is being called the abuser barred from visiting the nursing home? If not I am sure that she would have discussed the visit by the solicitors with her mother.
 
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