Can I write off previously incurred undeclared capital losses against gains?

Pretty simple really section 951 TCA 1997 refers
Losses incurred must be returned/filed, hence the box 809 appearing on the 2005 Form 11.

If you had lossses, that you did not declare, you would be deemed to have filed an incorrect return. This does not mean that the losses are unavailable for offset against a future gain. There is no legislation or case law precedent that provides for this restriction. Instead you can simply declare losses in prior year in box 810.

Of course revenue can go after you for making an incorrect return, but in all honestly I think they have better things to be doing with there time. i.e. a letter of repair to a form 11/12

Lastly, there is nothing stopping you from making a subsequent declaration of capital losses after the return has been filed.

Regarding loss restrictions the only restrcition in place refers to corportaion tax. This serves to restriction the amount of losses available for use where a return is late
 
paul_m said:
In my case I did alot of share dealing in 2002,2003 & 2004, but I never did tax returns on the transactions.
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Of course there is a possibility that this could in fact be considered a "trade" and not capital acquisitions and diposals, in which case you have a further problem

Did your accountant mention this at all?
 
ClubMan said:
So it's just your opinion? I suspect that you are wrong and that a return is required whether or not there is any actual liability.
Have you read the TCAs and Tax Briefings on this stuff?
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Yes Clubman, as a tax consultant I express an opinion on interpretation of tax law (esp.when it is not black and white as in this instance) so this is 'just' my opinion which hasn't changed since 11:30 this morning!

If you had read the TCA and Tax Briefings you would not suspect I was wrong. As you readily agree you are not a tax expert so why shout down those of us helping someone (who had got questionable advice) when we offer an opinion for free?
 
ubiquitous said:
By the way, challenging Zaire's opinion by asking "Have you read the TCAs and Tax Briefings on this stuff?" is rather ungracious
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That was a straight question. If you read it as an ungracious challenge then that's not my problem.
 
As I said earlier

I would have thought that you should at this stage be more concerned with the blatant inaccuracy of the advice you initally gave to the OP
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... rather than trying to pick rows with everyone else here.
 
I don't agree with basermc's interpretation of S951. The relevant part of S951 is per jfitzer's post - nothing stating that losses incurred must be returned/filed. S951 tals about "a chargeable person who is chargeable to income tax or capital gains tax for a chargeable period".

So the question to be asked is 'Was Paul_m a shargeable person chargeable to capital gains tax..." in the years he made capital losses? I think not.

However basermc agrees that there is no restriction on taking the capital losses forward (with myself and ubiquitous) and his point on trade is of course valid.
 
What was the end of this. I find myself in Paul_M boat having not declared capital losses going back over 8 years. Is there a limit on how far can now declare them. can I just fill out the section in the F11 form "Amount of unused loss(es) from prior year(s) available for offset against chargeable
gain(s) above"
 
Stockmaster said:
What was the end of this. I find myself in Paul_M boat having not declared capital losses going back over 8 years. Is there a limit on how far can now declare them. can I just fill out the section in the F11 form "Amount of unused loss(es) from prior year(s) available for offset against chargeable
gain(s) above"
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There is no restriction of the carry forward, just complete the box with the total of your losses carried forward.
 
That doesn't seem to make sense in a world where Revenue restrict claims to 4 years that they would allow unlimited carry forward of losses.

Not that I know anything about the area but it just seems strange, do you have a source for that view?
 
dereko1969 said:
That doesn't seem to make sense in a world where Revenue restrict claims to 4 years that they would allow unlimited carry forward of losses.

Not that I know anything about the area but it just seems strange, do you have a source for that view?
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The 4 year limit is contained within S.865 TCA 1997, "Limit of time for repayment claims". What we are talking about here is the carry forward of a loss, not a claim for repayment. The relevant section for allowability of CGT losses is S.546, the Revenue instruction manual relating to this section is here (http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-19/19-02-05.pdf?download=true), and you'll see that losses carried forward are treated as a deduction in calculating the amount of chargeable gains in a period. A deduction is very different to a repayment.

[broken link removed] ;)
 
Thanks for clarifying that, it still seems illogical to have an open-ended deduction on gains. I know it's not a repayment but it does reduce liability.

Now for a stupid question.

What happens where someone has been made bankrupt, can previous losses that presumably should have been wiped out by the declaration of bankruptcy be used?
 
dereko1969 said:
Thanks for clarifying that, it still seems illogical to have an open-ended deduction on gains. I know it's not a repayment but it does reduce liability.

Now for a stupid question.

What happens where someone has been made bankrupt, can previous losses that presumably should have been wiped out by the declaration of bankruptcy be used?
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I suppose the open-endedness arises out of a need for equitable treatment. Capital transactions are of their nature infrequent (as opposed to income/revenue related transactions), indeed many people may never realise a capital gain / loss other than the exempt kind on their PPR.

It would arguably be unfair to penalise someone by not allowing the carry forward of a loss just because they haven't sold any chargeable assets within a specific period of time.

This is in contrast with the time limit for repayments, which exists in order to ensure people file their returns / claim their entitlements within a reasonable period of time, and allows for manageable administration of the tax system. (Without a time limit you could waltz into the tax office and say you're due back £5 and 4 shillings from 1968!).

So the 4-year time limit applies where for some reason a taxpayer hasn't actually done something they're obliged to do - file a complete and accurate return or claim a repayment they are entitled to. On the other hand, there is no (nor should there be any) obligation to sell an asset / realise a capital gain in order to be allowed the benefit of a loss previously incurred.

As for your question about bankruptcy, I don't know off the top of my head!
 
by the way in a related question... if you make a capital loss on a property can you add the costs involved in buying the property fees etc in that loss?
for instance if you paid 100k for a property and the charges were say 5k and the property was sold for 80k would the loss be 20 plus 5...25k loss

Pat
 
Do the "transaction costs" include any stamp duty paid on the original transaction when setting the base cost for CGT?
 
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