Can anyne explain VHI, lose 47,000 pump up prices??

NOAH

Registered User
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811
I have lost all sense of reality and this latest VHI .... has me on the floor. We are in a recession, load umeployed, higher taxes and so on.... then a VHI bomb, an increase of 45% for their most popular plan. And they have lost 47,000 customers.

I would say we are losing it big time, what is all this guff about we are now at 2007 prices???

It seems to me that FF are adopting a scorched earth policy for the incoming TD's.

I give up.

no--
 
The government increased the charge levied by the state for private beds.
 
I know the bit about the government charge for beds but if that was the case then surely the other health insurance companies will increase prices as well!!

VHI should tackel the provider on prices instead of just lumping it on the members. I still think they want people to leave and join the other showers.


noah
 
VHI should tackel the provider on prices instead of just lumping it on the members.

I think there is no negotiation possible when it is the government/hse is setting the prices for public hospitals.

Joe Duffy had an interesting piece durning the week regarding haemachromotosis sufferers.These patients have to give blood on a regular basis.

Private hospitals charge about €100-€200 public hospitals charge over €500. In holland the equivalent service costs €85.

The health insurance providers can and do negotiate aggressively with the private hospitals but it seems the public hospitals just arbitrarily choose a figure which is plucked out the air.
 
Had an echcardiogra done in 2008 in a public hospital, through my VHI cover. I went in at 9 in the morning, had my details taken by a nurse, was weighed and had blood pressure taken. (No bed, just a chair) Went and had the procedure done. I was out again by 9.45.

When I got the copy of the invoice/bill from VHI, I found that the actual procedure cost was €50 and the cost of the other 15 mins in a chair.....wait for it.....€670. I kid you not. And we wonder why our premiums are so high?
 
I have heard such cases as well but did you conatct VHI to query?

noah
 
That sounds strange alright as an echocardiogram is usually just carried out on the same basis as walking in and getting an x ray done. It sounds like you were billed as a day case procedure. Not sure we should even be discussing this as it's against the rules!
 
My son has his wisdom teeth out and was told that he had to eat something afterwards. He was given a yoghurt that he picked at. The VHI was billed for a days stay with meals.
 
I have lost all sense of reality and this latest VHI .... has me on the floor. We are in a recession, load umeployed, higher taxes and so on.... then a VHI bomb, an increase of 45% for their most popular plan. And they have lost 47,000 customers.

I would say we are losing it big time, what is all this guff about we are now at 2007 prices???

It seems to me that FF are adopting a scorched earth policy for the incoming TD's.

I give up.

no--

Noah,

My initial reaction was that the VHI had already lost customers due to the Depression and ramped up their prices to compensate for the shortfall in income.

This is the opposite of what you suggest, that they are trying to lose customers - IMO they are hoping their customers are going to take it on the chin for them.

As for the comments about medical costs here - they are outrageous and I sympathise with anyone getting stung like that.

It'd nearly be cheaper to head for India - if only Ryanair ran a service direct to Delhi.

ONQ.
 
VHI does have issues of inadequate cost management and generally increasing prices but a large part of their problem is caused by the age profile of their customers and the age profile of the customers who are leaving them.

A very simplified example to explain their problems:

Divide private health customers into ‘young’ and ‘old’. Young customers cost their health insurer an average of €200 a year in medical expenses and old customers cost an average of €2,000 a year.

If VHI has 50% young and 50% old, they can charge €1,100 (50% * €200 + 50% * €2,000) to all customers and break even.

However, if a competitor arrives in the market and manages to attract mainly young customers away from VHI, so that VHI now has 40% young and 60% old customers, VHI’s cost of providing cover has increased to an average of €1,280 (40% * €200 + 60% * €2,000) just because of the age profile change. So, they have to increase their premium to €1,280 from €1,100 just to break even after the age profile change.

Meanwhile, if their competitor has an age profile of 80% young and 20% old, their average cost is only €560 (80% * €200 + 20% * €2,000) – so they can charge the same as VHI and make a huge quiet profit – or charge less than VHI to attract more customers away.

As VHI lose more and more young customers (either to a competitor or now when cover is just too expensive generally), their age profile is getting worse and worse from a cost perspective – so their prices go up more – so they lose more customers and their age profile gets worse still – so their prices have to go up more... and so it goes on until VHI goes out of business or some form of risk equalisation is brought in.

And while yes, the new competitors are notionally open to all ages, the young can be attracted in all sorts of ways – by focusing on corporate schemes, offering better maternity/family benefits, offering treatments like physiotherapy, alternative treatments etc. I’ve read interviews with some of VHI’s competition and they are really quite disingenuous with ‘it’s a level playing field without risk equalisation, we are quite happy to take older members etc.’ when the reality is that young customers are much more likely to switch insurers – older customers just don’t like change anyway but I think they also often have a misguided view that VHI will reward their loyalty by looking after them when the time comes.

Risk equalisation would try to compensate insurers (most likely just VHI in the short term) for having a more costly membership profile without compensating them for more expensive cost base, deals with providers etc. – I think some way will have to be found to do this but it is horribly complicated - and apparently illegal according to our supreme court.
 
Had an echcardiogra done in 2008 in a public hospital, through my VHI cover. I went in at 9 in the morning, had my details taken by a nurse, was weighed and had blood pressure taken. (No bed, just a chair) Went and had the procedure done. I was out again by 9.45.

When I got the copy of the invoice/bill from VHI, I found that the actual procedure cost was €50 and the cost of the other 15 mins in a chair.....wait for it.....€670. I kid you not. And we wonder why our premiums are so high?

from looking at my last claim statement, (a while back now touch wood), there is a phone number to contact, if you have queries about charges on the claim. found the attached link on vhi site
http://www.vhi.ie/info/siu.jsp
 
Heard on the radio yesterday that there is one option for VHI Customers.
I may be wrong, but apparently every single policy has to be available for every single person. This inludes Corporate Policies.

From my understanding, the corporate policy rates have been left untouched. As such if you have a private policy and your premium has gone up you are entitled to ask them what their corporate policy equivalent is and they are obliged to offer you this.

The funny thing is that even an individual can avail of the Corporate Policy rate, you dont have to be a corporation or even working for one.

Worth a shot
 
VHI does have issues of inadequate cost management and generally increasing prices but a large part of their problem is caused by the age profile of their customers and the age profile of the customers who are leaving them.

But these VHI customers were young once. I joined in the 70's after being on my parents policy. I made one claim, less than £1000 in all those years. I have never been offered a no claims bonus. What were they doing with all the money when they had it.
 
...VHI does have issues of inadequate cost management ...
I believe you are right...
From their TV advertisements they put it forward as a virtue, a unique selling point!
Their latest cartoon animated one about the woman having twins refers to her having to do nothing except sign the form and VHI looked after the rest!
I can hear the imaginary jingle in the background - "WE PAY ANY BILL DOT COM - WE PAY ANY BILL DOT COM..." :mad:
 
VHI does have issues of inadequate cost management

I believe you are correct, but from [broken link removed] it would appear to be spun differently:

Total earned premium for the twelve month period ended 31st December 2009 was €1.314 billion compared with €1,025 billion for the previous 10 months to December 2008.

Operating Expenses as a % of earned premium for our health insurance business is 6.4% down from 7.6% the previous year.


So...operating expenses as a percentage of revenue fell, however what they neglect to mention is that actual operating expenses increased by 7.95% during a time when the cost of most things fell

Revenue 2009 1,314bn * 6.4% = 84.1m
Revenue 2008 1,025bn * 7.6% = 77.9m
84.1*100/77.9 = 107.95 i.e. +7.95%

Surely, operating expenses should have fell during this period and not increased...so perhaps the VHI could do more before hitting their largely elderly and loyal subscribers.
 
But these VHI customers were young once. I joined in the 70's after being on my parents policy. I made one claim, less than £1000 in all those years. I have never been offered a no claims bonus. What were they doing with all the money when they had it.
I think there were some profits returned to the state but VHI was basically run as a pay-as-you-go system – so your past premiums each year went to pay for the medical expenses of other members in that year – with no guarantee that the price for you would be affordable as you became older/sicker.
 
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