C1 BER House - How to approach upgrades?

conor_mc said:
...and a battery!
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@conor_mc What do you use your battery for? You can't really run just any appliance off it can you, like a cooker, fridge or electric shower?

I don't have solar, yet, but considering getting a battery, charge it up overnight on EV rate then run an oil filled electric space heater off it during peak times. Probably a long payoff given cost of battery mind you.
 
CharlieMac said:
What do you use your battery for? You can't really run just any appliance off it can you, like a cooker, fridge or electric shower?
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It’s a household battery connected to the PV system’s hybrid inverter. Gives your PV system considerably more options to make savings depending on the tariff regime in place. For example, at the moment I fill the battery overnight at 14c and allow my solar to export earning me 20c a kWh when I’m not consuming it, this avoiding daytime 28c units. Just in process of swapping out my 5kWh battery for a 15kWh battery which will allow me to switch to an EV tariff, filling the battery overnight at 5c and exporting at 25c but avoiding (for the most part) the very expensive 38c daytime rate that comes with that tariff. We also have 2 EV’s but fairly short commutes so don’t do a huge amount of charging the cars overnight.

If the currently generous feed-in tariff that I can sell electricity for is reduced, eliminating that 25c-5c margin, I’ll switch to filling the battery with daytime solar instead of exporting it, making sure I self-consume more of that generation. You really can’t lose by attaching a battery to a solar PV system unless you pay too much for it.

Some of the prices of installer-provided batteries are very expensive but can be gotten elsewhere cheaper. I was quoted €2250 for a second 5kWh battery but ordered a 15kWh battery from China for €2400. I thought I’d get at least €1000 back for mine but see the same model at 1yo is now selling for €800 or so. I calculated a payback of 4-5 years on the incremental cost of attaching my battery. Thinking of adding a second now and electrifying some/all of my home heating with a heat pump to replace gas.

Edit to add, you don’t run specific appliances off a solar PV battery, it sits on the solar side of the inverter and the inverter takes from it when the household demands more than the solar is generating at that moment in time. Can easily boil a kettle off it, i.e. a 1.5 to 2kW draw.
 
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That's very helpful info cheers. I did a bit more reading.. Ok, I can't just buy a 15kWh battery and charge it up by plugging it in to a power socket then run a space heater by plugging it in to that same battery. I would need an inverter and maybe other things too.

There are batteries with built in inverters, but anything with decent capacity is expensive. I'm probably better off just getting solar and get a proper sized battery integrated with that.

There's a guy in my work says never get a heat pump they cost a fortune in electricity. Says a regular oil burner is more efficient. Maybe there's a way to configure a heat pump with solar to reduce the running cost.
 
CharlieMac said:
There's a guy in my work says never get a heat pump they cost a fortune in electricity. Says a regular oil burner is more efficient. Maybe there's a way to configure a heat pump with solar to reduce the running cost.
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Don't get me started! :p

Well-designed heat-pumped heating systems (importantly, system means source AND emitters/radiators AND piping) are far more efficient than an oil burner - rules of physics and all that. There are horror stories for sure, but mostly caused by inappropriately designed systems - rads too small for low flow temps, plus sometimes an old on-off mindset rather than a leave-it-running-all-the-time mindset.

Worth watching this video to see some real world results of proper HP design fixing an absolute disaster of an install.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWB27SUgoVE&pp=ygUXaGVhdCBnZWVrIHNraWxsIGJ1aWxkZXI=
 
Quick update on my side...

After talking to other OSS's (which in fairness some have been super helpful) do not pay for anything up front unless you they provide a Dwelling and Technical Assessment outlined by the SEAI here.

Without both assessments, it is not possible for other OSS's to give you an estimate of works needed. (e.g. counter quotes) Plus the the Home Energy Assessment costs ~€750 of which the SEAI provides a grants of €350 towards, which was never discussed with me via the original OSS. So I have no idea if they claimed this grant in my name...

I have contacted the original OSS outlining my complaints and gave them until Friday the 20th June to respond to address my concerns. Otherwise I will follow their official complaints procedure.

Ultimately I have lost total faith in this well marketed and visible OSS, I may need to start from scratch with another OSS while figuring out how I can recoup the funds paid to date.

Dare I say, my experience to date is why One Stop Shops get a really bad press.
 
Latest update:

I had a call from the OSS with a Customer Solutions Manager, who said they would request the Dwelling Report and any technical information they have from their Engineering Department. They pointed out to me that there were IIRC 3 SEAI grants and started talking me through them until I said I know this however the OSS grant that included Windows was why I approached your OSS company.

Honestly the rest of the conversation did not add any value or reassurance for me, as someone who has worked in Customer Service for 2 decades my appraisal of the discussion was more akin to looking for reasoning away what has happend to date.

For example, part of the discussion was on the orignal BER that was provided when I purchased my new home whad "inconsistencies" which are my words. That was posited as a reason for complications in the assessment of works needed, however I called this out on day 1 with the OSS that the BER mentioned radiators when the house is UFCH throughout. Sigh!

When I asked why I could not see the Contractors assessment of works? The answer was while the Contractor is amazing, they are not an engineer... !?!?!

In fairness though, the link I posted above is incorrect as the Customer Solutions Manager pointed out to me. However, theSEAI link here is the correct sample report for OSS's and still has a dwelling repot and technical details of the dwelling and proposed solutions. I have pointed this out in my email reply to the Customer Solutions Manager.

I have also asked if any SEAI grants have been applied for in my name, which I assume not as I didn't sign off on any, but that could be a big assumption!

In the meantime other OSS's I have been sounding out have done much better in walking me through the process and grants available. For example "I understand your property is a C1 currently so you can avail of the €350 cost of the assessment as opposed to the €700." which was never discussed elsewhere.

Honestly I am really regretting trusting this OSS and more than likely going to restart the whole process with another OSS.

But I will continue holding the other OSS to account seeing as I paid them in good faith ~€1045....
 
CharlieMac said:
There's a guy in my work says never get a heat pump they cost a fortune in electricity. Says a regular oil burner is more efficient. Maybe there's a way to configure a heat pump with solar to reduce the running cost.
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Someone in my work got rid of an EV because their electricity bill went up. They never considered that their spending on the local Circle K had gone to zero.....
 
Quick update:

I received a dwelling report and technical assessment from the original OSS today. Along with confirmation that no HEA/SEAI grants had been applied for. I need to review both and ask for opinions on same.

Dare I say, I've lost 6 months and potentially €1k in terms of this retrofit. I hope I am wrong....
 
I suspect I'm using the same OSS and so far, I am not terribly impressed with either their timeliness or output. Thankfully "only" €250 in the hole as I availed of an offer at the Ideal Homes show. Had the consultation on the Home Energy Report a few days ago and have sent them back to tweak it, taking out the heat pump and concentrating on improving the fabric of the building. The more I read, the more dubious I am about proceeding. Nowhere in the report does it show the cost of heating for existing (gas) v electricity for heat pump. The whole SEAI grant scheme is geared towards carbon reduction which while very desirable, needs to be transparent on cost of electricity. A heat pump being four times more efficient is brilliant, but when the price is 3.5 times the unit cost of gas, it's not quite as good as it is initially presented.

The other thing I would need to get over is what the db level of these devices are in the real world. We walked away from a few houses that were on the market because of the noise of the demand control ventilation alone.
 
I have a heat pump for more than 10 years and upgraded it recently(to future proof house and avail of grant while I still could)

Based on my experience and talking to installers I would not get a OSS to fit one unless I had a direct service contract with the supplier after it's fitted, my guess is that the OSS won't want to know

Anyone who is good is in demand and probably wouldn't be bothered doing work for OSS, so I'd guess you get less experienced fitters etc.
 
MoolaMgr said:
Nowhere in the report does it show the cost of heating for existing (gas) v electricity for heat pump.
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That's a variable, so it probably makes sense that they don't, otherwise they'd have people coming back complaining about the costs not matching as energy prices fluctuate. Are they documenting the expected heat requirements in kWh? The SEAI publish a separate heating costs guide every quarter, you can reference that to calculate.
 
Further update on my situation, awaiting quote (a third HEA report) from another OSS once they plug in all the tech details into Prime19.

Then last Friday, I got a call from the original contractor who in essence said he was frustrated too with the OSS but was still very interested in my project. Spent time talking through the proposed work and where he felt some line items were not strictly needed. Clarified questions I had, to a point made above stated while heatpump is not the cheapest on the market but they provide quality service/backup if any issues. He is going back to the original OSS to see what can be done on price.

When I get both quotes I'll decide what my next steps are...
 
Short update: No contact or revised quotes from either OSS. Have fired off emails to both along with (as in fairness I was told from the outset) considering farming out my retrofit to indivdual contractors. Will give the OSS's 7 business days before I abandon them completely, and start a formal complaint process against the initial OSS. Which is unlikely to refund any monies paid but will make me feel better in terms of helping others into the future.
 
Quick update from my side...

Mid July the OSS contractor called me saying that he was still interested in my "project". After a detailed discussion on the technical aspects of my retrofit (key point here is every house is different), I agreed a plan and quote to move forward.

Skip to now, over the last 7 days the heatpump is installed (250l cylinder piped into the hotpress), insulation in the attic and extension sorted. A 16 solar panel array has been installed on the roof (was told could squeeze another 2 panels into the array once SEAI signed off on the grant) the invertor and battery yet to be installed.

The main cost in my retrofit was the windows and doors, a guy should be coming to do the final measurements this week then circa 10-12 weeks for them to manufacture same and then 7 days to install them all.

While things have worked out more than my budget allowed, I did get the main retrofit circa 5k within my intiial budget. Then the extras were priced with the contracter directly. (ufch manifolds, stats etc.)

Addendum: When I looked for a quote elsewhere to beat the 71k incl grants..., I was told 96k!!!! Sigh... really????

Anyways, a lot has happened in 2 weeks... in terms of retrofitting.
 
lff12 said:
Glad it all worked out for you. Will be interesting to hear how you get on over the next year or two.
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Well everything is somewhat in progress but thank you much appreciated!

So to date here is where things are:
  • Attic and Sunroom insulation - done - On day 1, I noticed a difference even though they had only insulated half of the attic space. As for the sunroom, in short the previous insulation had been one sheet of rockwool just thrown into the space. (A joke basically). But honestly just with the insulation upgrade I am noticing the house holding it's heat a lot more.
  • Heat Pump Install - done. Still very early days in my heatpump relations. Have it setup to heat DHW over night to avail of low tarriffs. The big challenge will come in the next month or so, when the house starts to cool. As mentioned previously, the house is wet UFCH throughout. While I had the manifolds, heads etc upgraded each room is still calling for heat through stats. For various reasons, I'm likely to upgrade the old mechanical room stats to digital ones. But in the meantime, have the stats dialled down waiting to see how the heatpump and house temps react together. This will be the tricky part in terms of COP/SCOP.
  • Solar - Finally connected up today, after 2 weeks of having panels on the roof. Have 16 bifacial panels installed, a 12kKwh battery and since it was commissioned around 3:30pm today the plant generated 8.7kwh. Since I had a smart meter installed our average consumption per day is 13kwh. I need to tweak the inverter in terms of battery storage in the coming days but very pleased so far.

The key for me is the Heatpump performance that is going to need dialling in as will the solar to a lesser extent.

The last step in this retrofit is the Windows/Doors, we have agreed on the whole replacement of same... Due to have them measured tomorrow and the order put into the factory this week.

So far, so good as they say. (If I chose one upgrade I had to do... Insulation all the way)
 
Update on my Retrofit story if anyone is interested.

  • Solar - Is amazing, no doubt I don't have the most efficient array on the market and only learned about optimisers today. But in short during the sunny days in September it totally flattened the house energy consumption for those weeks. Now 90+ of my energy is night time rate. As the days are shorter and less bright, I setup the inverter to charge the battery at night rates and it pretty much powers the house consumption during the day. Solar + Battery is a no brainer imho if you can afford it.
  • ASHP - This has been more of a journey, with leaks, a failed circulation pump and no flow upstairs. Had multiple visits to sort things, from tweaking up copper pipe connections that were weeping, replacing the circulation pump, to replumbing in 2 extra pumps to pull the return from upstairs and setting the existing room stats as high temp stops. Finally with Weather Comp the house is just constantly warm even with the dip in temps this week. It does take a lot of tweaking and no doubt as we head into winter I will need to keep doing so to get things optimum. BUT so far the difference from having the Gas Boiler to heat the house quickly on a timer, then boost it when temps drop in the evening so just cycling the boiler repeatedly which is super inefficient. Still have one item to fix in the underfloor heating manifold but not super urgent. To date, looking at energy consumption, the COP is just over 3, interesting to see how that goes deeper into Winter.
  • Final piece of the puzzle is replacing all the 20+ year old windows and doors in the house, that will really help in keeping the heat in. That work is due in November and will take a week.
It's been a long hard slog with many heated conversations on the way, but things are taking shape. While from the beginning I was never chasing BER or air tightness, the estimated BER at the end of the journey is A1 from a C1 let's see how that turns out.
 
Approx. a month later and I'm nearing the end of the window/doors retrofit. Naturally this was pretty invasive with the installers removing the old double glazing, cutting out the old frames and installing the new ones. In the final stages now, where all the reveals sic., surrounds etc being filled and sealed. Few more items to do tomorrow and then next week. I can tell the difference in terms of drafts (last Friday's storm you could feel and hear the wind blowing through the old seals), outside noise and just better warmth in the house.

This was the most expensive part of the retrofit, but wow aside from the functionality, the change in asthetics and light into the rooms is fabulous. (Expensive fabulous of course)

All these upgrades have made a huge difference to house comfort, namely the heat pump which now just keeps the house comfortable over the past months. I may need to tweak the comp curve adjustment a bit when it gets colder again due to better heat retention.

Next step now will be a site survey, oh chimneys still need to be sealed at room level and a new BER.... lets see how that goes presumably in the new year.
 
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