Buying a second hand home 2 questions

Discussion in 'Homes and gardens' started by Lone Star, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Lone Star

    Lone Star Frequent Poster

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    Hey, wasn't sure where to post this on AAM.

    Viewed a house today, with lots of land. First Question is: Which comes first - The Survey or making an Offer? Second Question: house needs a fair bit of work and is currently full of furniture and possessions - there is a bid on the house; but well below the asking. It seems like the house is being sold completely as is - but will cost quite a bit to get rid of all the stuff - several beds etc etc etc. We want to go in at full asking price and hopefully avoid bids against us - any suggestions how do we approach the family clearing out the house? It's to avoid time to clear it and expense to dispose of it ourselves. Third Question - a timber Chalet was built as a 'lean to' it's plumbed for water and central heating - but I doubt it has planning - is this an issue as a purchaser (It's rough enough inside, but could be salvageable if we decided to get Wwoofer Volunteers to work on the land) ? Many thanks.
     
  2. Protocol

    Protocol Frequent Poster

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    It is normal to make offers subject to survey.

    It is normal to go Sale Agreed subject to survey.

    Then get then survey done.
     
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  3. Protocol

    Protocol Frequent Poster

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    Planning issues can be problems if you're getting a mortgage.
     
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  4. Zenith63

    Zenith63 Frequent Poster

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    Re. the contents it will depend on whether the seller wants the stuff or wants to get away from the house without wanting to touch it (probate sale that kind of thing). Even if you had to get a large skip and a few mates around for a day/two for the cost of a few pizzas to clear it out, it's unlikely to cost more than €1k which is presumably a tiny fraction of the cost of the house. If you're going in at the ask price to try and give the seller a "no messing 'at the ask' option" that they'll hopefully take quickly without then thinking they can get a bit more, you could take the view that saying "we'll sort out dumping the contents, just hand over the keys" as part of that offer makes it even more compelling, compared to what might be seen as nickle and diming over the cost of a skip. That would be my thought on it anyway.

    FWIW I bought a house where some of the contents were to be removed, and others we paid for were to be left, in the end some items we wanted were taken and some that were to be removed were left behind, but when it comes close to getting the keys you won't want to be holding things up over a few hundred Euro and will just back down.
     
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  5. Lone Star

    Lone Star Frequent Poster

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    Sage advice thanks. I'll ask the agent anyhow, and keep any offer crisp and devoid of negativity. Thanks again.
     
  6. RedOnion

    RedOnion Frequent Poster

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    Just remember you don't have to do what's perfectly normal.

    Firstly, are you a cash buyer or do you need a mortgage? If a mortgage, any planning issues might cause problems.

    Just an alternate approach, as others have outlined the normal process. I recently bought a property, where there was another offer for a while, but well below what I thought it was worth.
    I brought a trusted builder to 2nd viewing, so I knew what I was getting into. I then made an offer, and while I expressed that it was subject to survey, I explained to agent that the survey would be deciding whether to buy or not if it identified any major structural issues. I told him I already knew the problems, and my offer reflected all the work we'd identified so I wasn't going to use a survey to knock off money after.
    I made what we thought reflected a very fair offer, on a 'take it or we'll walk away' type basis. 24 hours later, after minor negotiation, we were sale agreed.

    While I wouldn't go to the expense of a survey prior to bidding on a straight forward house, it might be worth getting an opinion with older stand alone property.
    E.g. Does septic tank seem ok? It can be difficult to make an offer, and later take 10k off because you need a new septic tank and percolation area.

    Re the contents, if the house needs work anyhow, it'll be a relatively minor cost to clear it out.
     
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  7. Lone Star

    Lone Star Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    Thanks Red Onion, clear out would involve 5 or 6 skips, a lot of stuff inside and out. House itself seems sound, dry and no sign of damp, no cracks etc. (Unoccupied over a year), work would be initially cosmetic and further down the line renovations depending on funds. It occurred to me to take a builder friend, who would have a savage eye. Yes Septic tank was in my radar - we'd have to inspect it. Late 70's build …. got me thinking about the roof - if it's pre 1977 - it could indeed be asbestos by the looks of it - at which point we're into a lot of money to undergo any works, or at some stage have it removed/replaced. There is a long standing offer on it which is now 26K shy of the new lowered asking price. Our financing is varied and portion of it mortgage and all yet to be confirmed. It's worth the asking price - we would be willing to go to asking - but the possible asbestos throws that into doubt. Maybe this one isn't for us....but the land is lovely....I'll ask the questions anyhow and overlap with checking original planning application. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  8. Monbretia

    Monbretia Frequent Poster

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    If there is a lot of land check that too with mortgage application, usually only house and small amount is considered as security for mortgage but if mortgage is small percentage of cost maybe you'd be ok with even that.
     
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  9. dubgem

    dubgem Frequent Poster

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    Re clearing out the furniture, there are several "Freecycle" type websites where you can just put up pictures of the items (with measurements) and people will take them off your hands. I did this when I bought my house with a kitchen sink unit, a window, a back door and even a bathroom suite. All were collected and I didn't have to pay anything.
    (In case you're wondering, the way to take a photo of a window is to close the curtains and take the photo from outside)
     
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  10. RedOnion

    RedOnion Frequent Poster

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    You need bigger skips!! :)

    Factor it into your offer, and say that. If it'll cost you 5k, it's cost the sellers the same. They might not have the 5k to spend, so you buying as-is might be worth a lot to them.

    Get advice re asbestos. It's a lot more common than people think, but generally not an issue unless you go do anything with it.
     
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  11. Lone Star

    Lone Star Frequent Poster

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    Thanks all, good idea re freecycle, or a free 'yard sale' we'll see how it all goes. we've still to decide how keen we are/ have a second viewing, plus gather finance etc. Haven't bought land before - so never even thought of that re mortgage - we'd be hoping that just over 2 fifths of purchase price is mortgage. but sure someone could come in out of the blue and buy it ahead of us. At least we have decided on where to buy - before this we were all over the County looking!
     
  12. RedOnion

    RedOnion Frequent Poster

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    How much land are you talking about? And does it have development value, or purely agricultural?
    Remember you pay 6% stamp duty on anything more than an acre with the house.

    Once you've narrowed down location, it gets easier. I spent many weekends driving to places I'd never heard of until we settled on an area.
     
  13. Lone Star

    Lone Star Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    The agents have the stamp duty down as 1% of the asking price. I never thought beyond that. Land is just over 8 acres. Agricultural 50% and rest scrub/bog. at 6% we'd be unable to buy. Bummer October 2017 - this country does not make anything easy!!! Unless it's possible to buy under a few transactions - no doubt that has it's caveats.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  14. RedOnion

    RedOnion Frequent Poster

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    Ah sorry, the 6% is only on the value of the land.
    Say you buy the entire for 300k. You'll need a valuation certificate for the house and land separately.
    Say the split is 250k for house, and 50 for land.
    Stamp duty will be 250k @1% plus 50k @6%.
    So 5.5k in that example.

    8 acres is a nice piece - one way to get away from nuisance neighbours!
     
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  15. Lone Star

    Lone Star Frequent Poster

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    Had a look at a few random properties, misleadingly, agents seem to pop the stamp duty estimate down 1%. Yup, we'd be buying peace and quiet for sure!! (At the moment though after huge perseverance and effort the neighbourhood is super quiet!)
     
  16. Leo

    Leo Moderator

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    Most furniture like divan beds can be broken up with a sledge or demo saw so they take up far less space. A 6 cubic meter skip should cost less than €300, the larger 14 cubic yard skip can be had for ~€400, roll-on/off 20 yard that will hold 20 tonnes will be less than €700.
     
  17. RedOnion

    RedOnion Frequent Poster

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    To be fair to agents, this is probably defaulted. Myhome for example does that once you enter as a residential property.

    Sites over an acre tend to be the exception, even in country areas. Just be well informed, and factor it all into your offer.

    While you're at it, check the Land direct website to see if it's registered with land registry already. Then talk to your solicitor to get an estimate of total legal costs, including 3rd party costs.

    In my case, the land was land registry and house was registry of deeds, so my legal costs were a bit higher than normal.
     
  18. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

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    I think the skip issue is not relevant to teh purchase as it's a side issue.

    If you don't want to do the dumping hire some lads. Also if you put stuff on the street you'd be amazed what people will take away, that's what I've done, and travellers in particular were very welcome as they take nearly everything.

    Last property I dealt with I was the executor and I found out my sister had left 'stuff' in the back garden after we'd all cleared out everythng to a skip and the purchaser was going do la li about it. So I offered to pay for a skip for him and deducted it from the purchase price and he was happy enough with that.
     
  19. Lone Star

    Lone Star Frequent Poster

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    Spoke with agent, the house will most likely be cleared unless there was anything we wanted.
    Land approx. 7000 euro an acre, so stamp duty is manageable, more than envisioned handing over to the state.
    Good to know all this now, rather than get a shock later on.
    Land isn't on Land Direct as it's been owned by same family for decades, so fees I imagine will be a bit more.
    In any event if this property isn't the one for us, we are more informed. Many thanks for all the input.
    It is a nice spot though.....
     
  20. RedOnion

    RedOnion Frequent Poster

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    Surprisingly, a first time registration costs less in outlays!
    The seller has some additional expenses getting compliant maps, but as a buyer its cheaper. It's only a few hundred in the difference.
     
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