Business, Accounting or Commerce Degree

C

CGorman2004

Guest
Hey,

Im not quite filling out my CAO form yet (im doing my Leaving Cert in 06') but I'd prefer to decide my career path sooner rather than later (i've seen posts in this fourm asking about what to do with just a week to go before the second deadline!).

Basically I want to go to college => do a degree => work in relevant areas of business until my late 20's => and then go into business for myself.. I've been interested in running my own business since i was quite young (10/11 or so!) and have followed the stock markets, financial pages, periodicals (e.g. Business Plus, Fortune) for several years and about 70% of the books I read are business related (from Ryanair to The Warren Buffett Story to How Stock markets Work). My subjects for the leaving cert are: Irish (ord), English (hon), maths (hon) business, accounting, economics, applied math, and physics.

So basically I want to earn as much as I can between leaving college and age 28/29 and also gain relevant experience. Im prepared to work hard to get places and will consider many options.

The courses im considering include:

DC111 - Business Studies
DC115 - Accounting and Finance
TR081 - Business, Economics and Social Studies
DN026 - Economics and Finance
DN015 - Commerce
DT366 - Accounting and Finance
DT365 - Business and Management
LM050 - Business Studies
LM036 - Economics and Sociology
LM020 Law and Accounting

I hopefully will see a career guidance councilor sometime during the year - but before that i'd like to get answers from people who have actually done these courses or smilier, work in the various areas of business etc. - thanks for choosing to waste a few minutes reading the above! Anyways here are my questions -

1) If I was to go into accountancy - what would I be best off doing a) a pure accounting degree then doing the ACCA/Other exams or b) doing a more general course such as business/commerce and then doing the exams to give myself a broader range of degrees to sell myself with.

2) In which area could I reach a high level of salary fastest - accounting, management, insurance, law etc?

3) How many years does it take to qualify as a fully qualified accountant? Assuming no exam failures!

4) Of the above courses are any seen by potential employers as substantially better qualifications?

5) I did the FAS directions online test - It gave me over 50 possible jobs - several sounded good such as Business/Investment Analyst and Fund Manager - my main concerns was that the number of positions available in these jobs would be quite low and several years of experience would be needed to achieve a top salary.. Am I justified in saying that openings are low? Is competition for these type of jobs high? Is several years experience needed before achieving high rates of pay?

I know i've plenty of time to think about it all, but I just want to get an idea of what lessons the people who've done all this can give me.

P.S. I know it seems it, but im not solely motivated by money! Its just that I want to save a decent amount of seed capital for setting up a business latter in life! Anyways im sure (well in a naive way!) that i'd enjoy pretty much any of the jobs in business. I enjoy working hard and am overly ambitious in life- i suppose competitive sport has done that to... anyways any answers?
 
If you're that anxious to start your own business, why wait? Have a look at the links in this google search - start your own business in ireland. If you wait until 30-ish, you may have family and financial commitments that'll put you off.

Is it too late for you to do a transition year. Try to work as a PA to another entrepreneur. Isn't that how Denis O'Brien started out?

Or start your own business at the weekend while in college - Catering/DJ/Market stall etc.

In college, you'll learn the finer points of economics and corporation tax law. As a start-up, you'll be more concerned with sales and getting your invoices paid.

Good luck!
 
I fully intend to be involved in and own a business (or several) during my last year of college (or earlier) and indeed my first few years in the workforce - however obviously I won't have much money at my disposal intially so hence the need for a high paying job (its much easier to borrow large amounts of money at fair interest rates) if you have a high, steady and proven level of disposable income. And of course if i were to fail in business (which i don't intend to) or decide that I want to settle down at 25 with 2.5 kids, a toyota avensis and a house 50km from my work - at least i'd have a decent qualification to fall back on. And of course if I was for example a qualified accountant or lawyer etc. any new business I set up (or buy) would have that particular skill at its disposal.

My basic problem - well its not really a problem - my basic question is which course would sufficently balance my need for bread and butter knowledge of business management and also give me a large advantage in the jobs market.

Also I'm finding it difficult to understand how much an accountant makes. Old posts in this fourm indicate 15k for a newly qualified to 70k for someone with just a few years more experience. How much could I be earning by age 25 or so.

One other thing; im relatively young for 4th year - i''ll be still 17 by my second semester in College; and since many business degree courses are 3yrs; i'd be finished by age 20. Oh and is it possible to be doing the ACCA/other exams whilst in college?

Don't take my questions too seriously - im not particularly worried about my career path, more, just curious to the options available to me.

Thanks

Try to work as a PA to another entrepreneur. Isn't that how Denis O'Brien started out?

Yeah,he was PA to Tony Ryan (about pg70? Ryanair: How a small Irish Airline conquered Europe ). But to get a job like that you need connections and im not quite from the Ballsbridge society scene - try Mid land commuter belt...(don't get me wrong - i love where i live!)
 
accountants

Try contacting some of the bigger firms (KPMG, PwC, E&A, Deloittes etc.) and finding out about their graduate recruitment programs - what's involved and what they're looking for. You could also contact some smaller local firms and find out what they'd be looking for - if you've no connections no harm in starting to build them now. Experience will do you at least as much good as college when it comes to business. Do you work part-time or will you do so during summer holidays? I learned a huge amount of basic business by working in my dad's shop from a young age and it really helped when I was studying business in college because I had a basic common sense that was, quite frankly lacking in some others on my course who had never had to work.

Also, considering your young age have you thought about taking a year out after your Leaving and spending a year abroad. Travelling or better yet staying in one place and working. If you've any interest in languages (although you're not studying any are you?) this would be a great way to get a bit of exposure to another culture and improve your language skills. It's also a tremendously empowering experience I found because it involves finding a type of independence you just can't get in the same country you've grown up in, have family and friends in etc. You could even go somewhere to teach English for a year (Japan is very popular and alwys looking for people I hear).
 
Re: accountants

Im going to get a summer job this year hopefully, i might be able to swing a low pay/good experience job with my uncle in a local insurance company - but to be honest its quite unlikely - im far more likely to end up filling tanks or staking shelves this year.

As for a Language, im doing Hons French... althought im not particularly good at it. Im going to franch for a week or two at the beginning of the summer... so maybe that will help. However a gap year to travel or teach english is not likely; althought i want to see the world - i'd prefer to do it in month segments (e.g. centeral europe for a month) ever couple of years. Anyways like i said before i really want to get into serious business as soon as i can (financially) afford to (i know you can start a business with little money, but, like i said im ambitious!)

Anyways i'm still wondering - where is the money! Managing or Accounting?
 
Re: accountants

I'm just wondering do you have any good ideas for your business?
 
Re: accountants

Anyways i'm still wondering - where is the money! Managing or Accounting?
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Maybe you could do a 'management' course and do a 1yr course in 'finance for non-financial managers'. The ACCA does one but it's called something else.

Years ago, I remember reading that HR people hardly ever make it to board level compared to other 'professions' (eg marketing, accounting, operations etc). Perhaps you could search the internet for similar statistics.
 
Yeah

Yeah that sounds like an interesting course of action, a degree in say Business Management, then a 1yr course.

Anyways im wondering whats the earliest stage one can start doing the ACCA exams?

I'm just wondering do you have any good ideas for your business?

Now that would be telling!
 
"Now that would be telling!"

Have followed this post with interest. Do you know young man (hope I have the gender correct) you will go far in life because you have such a positive attitude and fair dues to you, I like your style. Just wish my son would show some of your enthusiasm/get up and go.

Best of luck with your career and keep me in mind if you do as well as Denis O'Brien. ;)
 
CGorman,

Firstly let me echo Sueellen's comments - fair play to you for being so tuned in to what you want.

To answer your initial question regarding what course to take - my advice would be to do a BComm and then look to do Chartered Accountancy with one of the Big 5 (PwC, KPMG etc). The BComm will give you a good grounding in the key areas of business - Finance, Marketing, IT, Accounts etc but the accountancy qualification will be invaluable - particularly if your looking to set up your own business.

I am biased as I did a BComm (didn't do the BESS because at the time it was four years and the BComm was three) but I didn't go down the accountancy route and I regret it now.

The down side is you will make absolutely nothing while you're doing your exams (which I think take three years after finishing your degree) but once you're qualified you should make a bit - take a look on www.irishjobs.ie for "recently qualified" - I see one job there offering €50,000 (which isn't bad !!)

Anyway, just my two cents

efm
 
Thanks for the advice everyone; it certainly has cleared up a few things for me (particularly with relevence to lenght of acc exams & alternative options).

I've done quite a bit of research into the 6 or 7 possible degrees I mentioned above. So far i've pretty much ruled out the economics courses - althought economics is an area im quite interested in, from a career prospective it would take many years to reach a top paying job as an economist (unless i got lucky) and I feel there are more options with a Commerce or similier course.

As regards pay, I met an old friend last week, he is 27 years old and recently qualified as an audit senior and moved to Dublin for a job. I recall also seeing in the paper recently an ad for an Audit Senior with something like 3+ years experience - salery: €45,000+. So accountancy could work!

Some of the posters above have identified (correctly) my strong entrepreneual streak. My challenge is to get a decent grinding in the real business world (not just exams/books) before I plunge head first into my own business. Anyways, like I said before, I have a few smaller ideas that I could bring to fruitation whilst in full-time employment or education (actually its more than a few - I get a new business idea every day - from regional billboard firms to new methods of hosting sports club related web content)...

Anyways thankful i have a year to think about it; and at least i have an idea of what i want to be unlike so many of my peers!
 
Accountacy Pays!

Read in todays indo business section that average pay for management accountants is now €87,000 - with management accountants in the IT industry earning an average of over €110,000.

Accountacy has just gotten a bit more attractive!...
 
Re: Accountacy Pays!

I met an old friend last week, he is 27 years old and recently qualified
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Heaven help us.

If you start your own business, you'll have to sell your services, and then collect the money. Please remember that, regardless of what the Prof in UCD tells you.

The law was changed recently to allow companies to charge other companies interest on overdue invoices. Now, imagine an 20-yr old (for example) telling Tesco's (for example) you're charging them 6% extra because they didn't pay within 30 days.

Anyway, Good Luck!
 
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