Builders Obligations to repair faults developing after a few years:

Vanilla said:
Did you have a building agreement/contract with the builder?
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Yes I do have a contract with the builder.

In answer to other questions if the washing machine was installed inproperly and caused damage, yes I would expect recourse to the installer ( the builder ).

If the washing machine just breaks down then no, similar to the boiler.

In repsonse to DreamerB:
Have you had the boiler examined? Yes

Do you know how much repairs will cost? No

Have you had it serviced more than the single time you mentioned in your first post? The boiler is new enough that it is soon to be due its 2nd service so it only has required one.

Have you checked if there's any manufacturer's warranty that's still in place? Its an install issue

Before you even contemplate any legal action, you need to identify the problem, who's responsible, and the basis - if any - on which you can hold them liable. I don't think you've done any of these things. I have.

So many defensive posts here for the builder.

I fully understand I need to show that the builders faulty workmanship casued the problem, thats a given.
I dont have to show it here, or convince you people, I have come here for advice on a mechanism for remedy.

So all further advice on what mechanism to persue is appreciated.
I would have no intention of engaging a solicitor so the small claims, if suitable is perfect.

thanks all so far again.
 
Cookie,

If you don't mind me saying so, you don't seem to be very good at taking advice.

Title of this thread should be -

"Have a problem with boiler, have already decided what the problem is and who is at fault (not me) despite lack of expertise in the area, want to go to small claims court, and want everyone here to tell me I am right, absolutely no dissent allowed"
 
3cc said:
cookie,

If You Don't Mind Me Saying So, You Don't Seem To Be Very Good At Taking Advice.

Title Of This Thread Should Be -

"have A Problem With Boiler, Have Already Decided What The Problem Is And Who Is At Fault (not Me) Despite Lack Of Expertise In The Area, Want To Go To Small Claims Court, And Want Everyone Here To Tell Me I Am Right, Absolutely No Dissent Allowed"
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Lol.
 
sydthebeat said:
with that attitude you know what you can do with your query!!!
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Its just off the topic. I have been thankful for relevant replies, I think you will find you offered no advice and even started back seat modding on the relevance of the thread location. You now have at least learnt that a builder can be held under duty of care for defective workmanship.

Cheers Vanilla Ill do that.

3CC I was very specific in the beginning about what I wanted to do and I was seeking advice specifically on what I had outlined. Replies directed at the query have been appreciated and taken on board with thanks.
You are right that may have been a better title also :) !

Its true that that I have had it looked at, diagnosed as poor instalation, dont wnat to engage a solicitor and that my only option is small claims and that I have no expertise in law. Perfect title and as funny as tongue in cheek as you intended its true.

Why am I being encouraged to take it on the chin myself and not put it back on the installer, its barely 2 years old !
 
Funny, it was about three years old in your first post.

Nobody's asking you to take it on the chin - they're looking for what any judge will look for, which is an explanation of how and why the builder could be liable. Boilers and appliances are usually covered under separate warranties as Vanilla points out, and if the warranty has expired and they're not covered by any separate installation warranty issued by the builder then you may simply be out of luck. The fact that the first standard service did not bring to light the alleged installation issues, for example, would probably make it more difficult to prove to the standard that a court would expect that the problems are the builder's fault.

What people are saying is that if you cannot prove that the builder caused the problem and that the builder is or should be responsible for repairing or replacing, then you may have to take it on the chin. It's not defending builders and it's not attacking you: it's based on people's own experience and knowledge - which, in the case of mf1 and Vanilla as knowledgeable, qualified and practising solicitors, is particularly worth listening to on the legal side; sydthebeat's very familiar with building contracts and standard practice.
 
Dreamerb said:
Funny, it was about three years old in your first post.

What people are saying is that if you cannot prove that the builder caused the problem and that the builder is or should be responsible for repairing or replacing, then you may have to take it on the chin..
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Its 2 years 7 months right. between both.

Of course I know I need to show evidence of negliegnce, that bit I know.
How to go about it without a solicitor or disproportionate costs is what I dont know.

Anyway questions answered.
cheers
 
cookie said:
Its 2 years 7 months right. between both.

Of course I know I need to show evidence of negliegnce, that bit I know.
How to go about it without a solicitor or disproportionate costs is what I dont know.

Anyway questions answered.
cheers
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See the problem is that unless you can prove that it was not installed correctly or not commissioned correctly by the builder then the fault must be an inherent manufacturing fault- and therefore the responsibility should really lie with the manufacturer. If say an OFTEC reg service engineer could say to you- that is either an installation fault or a flaw in the boiler itself then you might know which direction to take it in.
 
could you specify to me the actual boiler fault?
Most even poorly installed survive to some extent. Have seen very few that required a complete new boiler. Possible heatedchanger change and powerflush!

Have you established where acording to manufacturers instructions the boiler was installed incorrectly and outline them to me.

Also. Assuming this is a gas boiler. Was the installer GID qualified? If not and you perdue this it may effect the outcome as a plea of ignorance can be used! It's not u tip jan 09 that installed are required to be compitant
 
Vanilla said:
See the problem is that unless you can prove that it was not installed correctly or not commissioned correctly by the builder then the fault must be an inherent manufacturing fault- and therefore the responsibility should really lie with the manufacturer. If say an OFTEC reg service engineer could say to you- that is either an installation fault or a flaw in the boiler itself then you might know which direction to take it in.
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Nail on the head, cheers.

I intend to have an independant professional report on it based on the feed back Im getting now.
I did not intend going to this cost or hassle until I believed I had reasonable mecchanism to persue this should the report state what the plumber verbalised.

DGOBS, I dont have any spec info yet other than the plumber said he thought it was an install fault.
I was not surprised as I know of many faults that have occured elsewhere in the building with the plumbing. As many of these occured inside DL period there were no issues, but there have been many displays of poor workmanship by the plumbing subbie up until and including the above.

It is Gas boiler and I have no idea was the Builders subcontrcator GID qualified, would the handover pack docuement this ?
 
In your handover pack there should have been a certificate of conformity for the gas installation and this would have been issued by the installer

I seriously doubt that the boiler is dead due to installation faults. How can it be?
Unless the heateexchanger burst due to excessive sludge/scale buildup causing heat damage ( but the system could still be flushed and new heatedchanger fitted)unless you left it leaking for a period and the water damaged the boiler beyond repair. But if that was the case you must have left it leaking for a while so it could be pushed back onto you I think

The boiler replacement may only be a matter of opinion and from what you know of it so far I would doubt anyone would listen. To be honest it sounds as if ur in for a long battle. The burden of proof will be on you and I can't see an installer standing in court and backing you with 100% certainty. By the time you get this examined and pay these people the ammount you will be looking from the builder may well exceed the max ammount the small claims court is set up ( used to be €5000 once upon a time. Not sure what it is now) ur boiler replacement alone not including fixing the mystery installation issues will cost €2000 min.

IMHO you need to swallow hard cut ur losses and move on. Not the answer you are after but I wish I could be more positive for you

I agree there has been a lot of bad installations over the past 10 years or more and something needs to be done but ur not gong to win that particular battle
 
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