Build House or Move abroad

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Patrick2008

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Currently I work as a Chartered Quantity Surveyor in Dublin. My wife, 2 kids and I are currently renting in Dublin and I own a site with planning on 12 acres outside Cashel in Tipperary. My wife does not work at the moment as she was made redundant a few months ago. She works in the Pharma industry in Science and she is also doing a final year degree in HR. She should have no difficulty in getting work in Munster in the Pharma / food industry.

We are thinking of building the Architect designed 1,865 sq.ft 3 bed house in Tipperary. I have estimated it will cost €142k incl VAT with builders finish and to 2010 regs. I got Builders to price it and they came back with an average price of €216k incl VAT. I will be using most of the trades people/subcontractors we currently use so I am getting good deals. As things are getting quieter with work I will probably end up working a 3 day week and commute to Dublin for those 3 days (1.5 hr drive each way). I could stay in B&B while in Dublin for those days. My employer is also open to me working from home. I know if I lost my job in the morning I would not get another job in Ireland.

So here is our dilema. Do we continue paying rent in Dublin at €1k/month or do we start building the house in Tipperary? We plan to get a mortgage of €100k and put €40k of our own money into the house. This will not leave us short as we still have substantial savings (€150k+). If we have to move abroad for work then my parents will move into the house (rent free). I know if I lose my job I wont have those contacts available to me again. Our long term plan was never to stay in Dublin but to use Tipperary as our base in Ireland. All advice welcome!!!!
 
142K seems on the high side for a 1850 sq. ft house. Then again it all depends on materials and spec etc. You seem to be in a very strong financial position, 190K+ savings and a site with 12 acres. Your wife is going to get a job once qualified, so why would you consider going abroad? You will be mortgage free, on 12 acres, with 50K and counting in the bank. All you need to do is become a house husband (free childcare) or pick something up parttime. Is this a fair assesment?
 
Thats true I suppose goingforgold. I meant to say the house is 1,765 sq.ft, which works out at €79/sq.ft. It is a fairly high spec in that I am trying to future proof it.

We have thought about putting more of our savings into the house build but I would rather not go over €40k in terms of cash into the house for the frist 5 years anyway.

Yes we have done well to save so our main reason in going abroad, if and when that happens, is to earn more cash and the experience of working abroad again. However, we would like to have a good quality, well designed house built to take advantage of my current contacts in the building industry and also to have a nice home to come home to.
 
Are your children of schoolgoing age or are they grown up? I suppose this would influence any decisions about moving abroad.
 
Why would you borrow the money when you have cash in hand? This will almost certainly cost you, as the interest paid will exceed the interest earned on your savings.
 
Complainer said:
Why would you borrow the money when you have cash in hand? This will almost certainly cost you, as the interest paid will exceed the interest earned on your savings.
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yes and interest rates are only going one way UP
the less you borrow the better
as for moving abroad, well the grass isnt always greener
 
One problem that I would have to worry about is your parents moving into the house rent free. If you did decide to return home will they then stay on also in your house - not a good idea.
 
Patrick2008 said:
Currently I work as a Chartered Quantity Surveyor in Dublin. My wife, 2 kids and I are currently renting in Dublin and I own a site with planning on 12 acres outside Cashel in Tipperary. My wife does not work at the moment as she was made redundant a few months ago. She works in the Pharma industry in Science and she is also doing a final year degree in HR. She should have no difficulty in getting work in Munster in the Pharma / food industry.

We are thinking of building the Architect designed 1,865 sq.ft 3 bed house in Tipperary. I have estimated it will cost €142k incl VAT with builders finish and to 2010 regs. I got Builders to price it and they came back with an average price of €216k incl VAT. I will be using most of the trades people/subcontractors we currently use so I am getting good deals. As things are getting quieter with work I will probably end up working a 3 day week and commute to Dublin for those 3 days (1.5 hr drive each way). I could stay in B&B while in Dublin for those days. My employer is also open to me working from home. I know if I lost my job in the morning I would not get another job in Ireland.

So here is our dilema. Do we continue paying rent in Dublin at €1k/month or do we start building the house in Tipperary? We plan to get a mortgage of €100k and put €40k of our own money into the house. This will not leave us short as we still have substantial savings (€150k+). If we have to move abroad for work then my parents will move into the house (rent free). I know if I lose my job I wont have those contacts available to me again. Our long term plan was never to stay in Dublin but to use Tipperary as our base in Ireland. All advice welcome!!!!
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E142,000 that is to a builders finish I presume - have you priced in kitchen, tiling, flooring, stoves, landscaping, entrance etc. In my own estimation having built previously a new build can be a money drain - add on at least 30% on to the builders finish for the house and also add on to allow for fees and for landscaping, tarmac etc to get a true picture.

Angela59
 
Why would you build a house in Tipp when you'd have to commute at least 3 hours a day? I moved house just because I didn't want to commute. It's not worth it. Jobs are in Dublin, would you not be better off buying a house in Dublin. It's a good time to buy now.

Your main argument for building the house seems to be that you can get it done cheaply at the moment. You and your wife need to make a decision not on the dream home but on what you are both going to do in the future and where that will be. If you are planning to go to the UK then don't build now. Keep your options open. Don't be put under pressure to build because you have a site near your parents. As for them moving in rent free, this is just going to create a mess. Would you plan then on renting in the UK and servicing a mortgage on the house in Tipp?

In relation to financing a house, nothing wrong with borrowing to build. What value will the house have when complete? Don't make the classic mistake a lot of people have of building a massive house that costs the earth to heat. Also spend plenty of money on insulation.
 
Thanks for all the replys.

As I am a Chartered Quantity Surveyor I have a full cost plan prepared and I have all prices agreed with subcontractors and suppliers. In a nutshell the price includes for everything expect landscaping, supply of ironmongery, supply of fireplace and stove, supply of tiling, supply of sanitaryware, loos furniture. Everything else is including. I have also allowed for council contributions, Engineer/Architect fees, airtightness specialist fees, Utility fees, EL & PL insurance, water connection charges.

In terms of house size, design etc we spent a lot of time at design stage with our suitably qualified Architect (RIAI) and he designed a house to meet our current and future needs. It is 164m2 (1,765 sq.ft) which is not a large house by any means. I am firmly of the view that a house should be on average 150m2 but we went 14m2 over in this case. It is a south facig site so the house is narrow plan only one room deep. Glazing is limited to the north side and opposite to the south side. There is a Kitchen/Dining, WC and Living room down stairs and 3 beds upstairs and 1 no. en suite and bathroom. Solar gain was important to us so the Kitchen gets the morning sun and the living gets the afternoon and evening sun. All bedrooms face south wth upstairs bathrom and corridor facing north acting as a buffer.

I hear what you are saying about the commute. My current projects are in Dublin, Galway, UK, Africa and Central Europe so I travel quite a bit. The long term plan is to try and do most of my work remotely from home except if I have to go to meetings in Dublin etc.

Of course buying a house in Dublin was considered but there is no way we would get a mortgage for €280k based on our salaries. I dont fancy putting €150k+ into a house in Dublin and still be paying a mortgage of €130k. This would mean all our savings would be eaten up. I know if I lose my job in the morning I will not be able to get a job in Dublin. If my wife gets a job after her degree she will probably be earning €30-40k. This salary would go further for us in Tipperary. Also, I know we cannot comment on house prices here but all I will say is I work for a property developer as a Chartered Quantity Surveyor and I have a good idea where house prices are going. I think the dog on the street does as well!!! In saying that material prices are going up especially timber, insulation and plasterboard.

I am taking the view that future employers will have to take into account peoples commute and in my case I spend most of my time in front of a computer with the remainder of time visiting sites, going to meetings etc. We want to move to Tipperary because we have family there, better quality of life and costs. If we have to move abroad I would rather be paying a small mortgage for a well designed, comfortable house on 12 acres rather than paying for a poorly built 3 bed semi in Dublin. I am also conscious that interest rates continue to rise and there is no guarantee of getting someone to rent a house from you in Dublin.
 
It looks like you've done your figures and you are correct about the price of timber, insulation etc on the way up - set to rise in the later end of this year. You would build a far better house than buy one in dublin. E146,000 seems very good value even in the current climate. I have planning permission to build a 2000 sq foot contemporary bungalow, spec I have was lots of insulation, PVC windows with argon gas and thermal low e coating, oil condensing boiler, rads, solar panel. The price was E217,000.
 
Angela59...I think OP is going direct labour essentially. Maybe your quote is based on a contractor taking on the whole job?
 
Having said that angela59, a friend of mine built a 2000sq. ft house in Clare in 2010 for 160K from a very reputable contractor. This included total house build (including PVC windows, oil heating with burner and rads, sanitary ware etc) and footpaths. Not including kitchen but apart from that all they had to do was some tiling and get furniture. Make sure you get lots of quotes, good value out there.
 
goingforgold said:
Having said that angela59, a friend of mine built a 2000sq. ft house in Clare in 2010 for 160K from a very reputable contractor. This included total house build (including PVC windows, oil heating with burner and rads, sanitary ware etc) and footpaths. Not including kitchen but apart from that all they had to do was some tiling and get furniture. Make sure you get lots of quotes, good value out there.
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That certainly is a good price - for now I'll put building on back boiler as to sell our own we'd never get back what we put in to it in the current climate.

To answer the original OP's question, from what you are saying the figures seem to stack up for you to build and you can work from home at least you have a job and you will have family around you. Moving abroad to me is a much bigger step and risk.

Angela59
 
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