Complainer
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With the aim of getting the product tested by an independent source and ensuring that the public is protected from any potential danger.
Bottle of Wine contained something else!
- Thread starter BOXtheFOX
- Start date
Some more info. Digital pictures sent by email. I asked the supplier if the picture of the bottle,cork and foil wrapper were those used by his company but he refused to answer these questions. I also asked him if he had an agent in Ireland. He also refused to answer this question.
His email to me below.
"Thanks for replying to my email promptly. XXXXX we really can’t find out anymore information until we get that sample analyzed and our winemakers to view the sample. I will forward you the analyzed results once we get this wine tested which will occur right away.
XXXXXXXX it might be worth us picking up the bottle and the cork and you keep a sample of the contents so we can get a look at the bottle and see what substance is stuck on the inside of the bottle.
Do you have a digital camera? It would help if we could visually have a look at the contents, bottle, and cork while we wait for the bottle to arrive in Australia? You would also have a copy of the pictures for yourself."
I am sending off a sample of the contents today plus the cork that was in the bottle.
His email to me below.
"Thanks for replying to my email promptly. XXXXX we really can’t find out anymore information until we get that sample analyzed and our winemakers to view the sample. I will forward you the analyzed results once we get this wine tested which will occur right away.
XXXXXXXX it might be worth us picking up the bottle and the cork and you keep a sample of the contents so we can get a look at the bottle and see what substance is stuck on the inside of the bottle.
Do you have a digital camera? It would help if we could visually have a look at the contents, bottle, and cork while we wait for the bottle to arrive in Australia? You would also have a copy of the pictures for yourself."
I am sending off a sample of the contents today plus the cork that was in the bottle.
Latest update. I would appreciate if any AAM posters who know people in the wine trade to comment on the following.
Dear Mr XXXX
We have had a look at the sample and cork that you returned and find the following:
The cork is not of a type that we use.
We contacted the manufacturer and they inform us that this cork can be identifed from the design on it and it was supplied to a European customer.
It is extremely unlikely that this cork was put into the bottle in Australia.
The liquid is not of a type that we use, all of the clear solutions that we use in our bottling hall are quite distinctive, and this is not one of them.
From what we have been able to test in our laboratory it is probably mouldy water, there is not much other than water in the sample.
The pH is similar to fresh water from peaty soils but a bit lower than generally found in town supplies, conductivity is within normal ranges for water.
It is slightly cloudy and has a distinct musty smell, this may be from the wine residue when it was refilled.
We are looking into whether we can get any more information on this, but is not as simple as the TV forensic series would have one believe!
From the above I would have to conclude that the bottle has had the wine removed and the water put into it.
You were not sure of the origin of the bottle - whether it was a gift or had been bought.
We sell quite a lot of wine and from time to time this sort of thing is reported to us. Generally in Australia it turns out to be a prank by friends or children.
As the capsule was on the bottle when you opened it, it would seem to have been well done.
It is unlikely that someone was trying to counterfeit the wine as it was not similar to the original red wine, and being a relatively low value wine again this is unlikely.
I will keep you posted if the above changes.
Regards
XXXX
Dear Mr XXXX
We have had a look at the sample and cork that you returned and find the following:
The cork is not of a type that we use.
We contacted the manufacturer and they inform us that this cork can be identifed from the design on it and it was supplied to a European customer.
It is extremely unlikely that this cork was put into the bottle in Australia.
The liquid is not of a type that we use, all of the clear solutions that we use in our bottling hall are quite distinctive, and this is not one of them.
From what we have been able to test in our laboratory it is probably mouldy water, there is not much other than water in the sample.
The pH is similar to fresh water from peaty soils but a bit lower than generally found in town supplies, conductivity is within normal ranges for water.
It is slightly cloudy and has a distinct musty smell, this may be from the wine residue when it was refilled.
We are looking into whether we can get any more information on this, but is not as simple as the TV forensic series would have one believe!
From the above I would have to conclude that the bottle has had the wine removed and the water put into it.
You were not sure of the origin of the bottle - whether it was a gift or had been bought.
We sell quite a lot of wine and from time to time this sort of thing is reported to us. Generally in Australia it turns out to be a prank by friends or children.
As the capsule was on the bottle when you opened it, it would seem to have been well done.
It is unlikely that someone was trying to counterfeit the wine as it was not similar to the original red wine, and being a relatively low value wine again this is unlikely.
I will keep you posted if the above changes.
Regards
XXXX
aircobra19
Registered User
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Very curious.
In fairness to the maker they cannot be held responsible for what happens to their wine once it is sold to an importer or shop or arrives in someone’s home. If you were able to tell them where it was bought they could have traced the chain back to them and investigated further.
I would suggest you buy another bottle of the same wine and check if the cork is the same as the one from the first bottle. If it is not then you have no reason to dispute their claims.
I would suggest you buy another bottle of the same wine and check if the cork is the same as the one from the first bottle. If it is not then you have no reason to dispute their claims.
Black Sheep
Registered User
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So now I know why they do this pretentious tasting bit in Restaurants. Ithink I will really taste it the next time
truthseeker
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Box - that is mad!
Its a pity you dont know if you bought it or were given it (Id be the same).
I cant believe people actually remove wine from bottles and reseal them in such a way!
Its a pity you dont know if you bought it or were given it (Id be the same).
I cant believe people actually remove wine from bottles and reseal them in such a way!
It's not pretentious. 'Corked' wine (where the wine reacts with the cork) is quite common - it's up to you, the customer, to decide if it tastes ok. Really, you should always taste it.
Z
z105
Guest
A "corked" wine is one that has been spoiled by a cork contaminated by "Trichloranisole", or TCA, which can be detected at concentrations of just a few parts per trillion. It affects the wine, giving it a musty, dank, mouldy smell and an off taste. Chlorine solutions used to sterilise corks have been found to encourage the production of TCA. This is the most common wine fault and can occur at the rate of one in 20 bottles opened (not at such a high rate for fine wines). This has stimulated the development of stoppers made from types of plastic, agglomerate cork and even screw tops.
Cork floating in the wine does not mean it is corked. It is a sign of a dried out cork or it could simply be that the bottle has been opened poorly. Mould on top of the cork is nothing to worry about either.
I know.
I have - I was responding to Blacksheep's post and Havealaugh was in turn expanding on mine.
It is worth pointing out that a corked wine might only start to taste really foul after a few minutes in contact with the air. Therefore, if you taste a wine and think it is OK, and a few minutes later, the next glass tastes bad, you can still send it back.
truthseeker
Registered User
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So Box - what are you going to do now after receiving that response? I suppose there isnt really another avenue you can go down as the supplier seems to be saying its not their fault?
I'm just wondering if some companies might ship containers/tankers of wine to another country plus their labels and have it bottled in that country to save on shipping costs. Anyone ever heard of this?
Hence the following email to the company.
Dear XXXX,
This is very strange. When I originally contacted your company you were able to identify from the numbers on the side of the bottle lots of information, date and time of run etc. So the bottle definitely appears to be one of yours. Was this bottle sold in Australia or can you identify what country it was shipped to?
Now you say that the cork is not one that you use. Can you let me know where it is manufactured and what country were using these corks?
Do you outsource or franchise out the manufacture of your wine to a third party or licence someone else to use your Logo's, name etc?
As mentioned previously we had two bottles of this wine. We drank the other and it was fine. This was not a prank by anyone on us. I think I know the person who gave it to me as a gift and they are the most respectable of people who would not be involved in a prank of this nature.
Personally I believe that it is one of your wines or someone is counterfeiting your wine.
A counterfeiter would use a label and bottle identical to yours but not necessarilly one of your corks. Would a counterfeiter imprint the numbers on the side of the bottle and also the foil wrapper on the top of the bottle?
Are they retrieving empty bottles from bottle banks and refilling them?
XXXX, have you had any other strange reports about your wine?
Regards,
Hence the following email to the company.
Dear XXXX,
This is very strange. When I originally contacted your company you were able to identify from the numbers on the side of the bottle lots of information, date and time of run etc. So the bottle definitely appears to be one of yours. Was this bottle sold in Australia or can you identify what country it was shipped to?
Now you say that the cork is not one that you use. Can you let me know where it is manufactured and what country were using these corks?
Do you outsource or franchise out the manufacture of your wine to a third party or licence someone else to use your Logo's, name etc?
As mentioned previously we had two bottles of this wine. We drank the other and it was fine. This was not a prank by anyone on us. I think I know the person who gave it to me as a gift and they are the most respectable of people who would not be involved in a prank of this nature.
Personally I believe that it is one of your wines or someone is counterfeiting your wine.
A counterfeiter would use a label and bottle identical to yours but not necessarilly one of your corks. Would a counterfeiter imprint the numbers on the side of the bottle and also the foil wrapper on the top of the bottle?
Are they retrieving empty bottles from bottle banks and refilling them?
XXXX, have you had any other strange reports about your wine?
Regards,
OK, long shot here, but I've another possible explanation.
Some wine bottles have the foil on tightly and some don't. Basically, instead of having to cut it, you can just slip it over the top of the bottle...
Sooo... maybe someone did this, drank the wine, refilled it with water, couldn't fit the original cork back into the bottle but found one in the house that did fit and used it instead, replaced the foil and brought it back to the shop 'unopened' for a replacement bottle of something else ???
There are plenty of unscrupulous people out there, and I wouldn't put it past some of them !!!!
Some wine bottles have the foil on tightly and some don't. Basically, instead of having to cut it, you can just slip it over the top of the bottle...
Sooo... maybe someone did this, drank the wine, refilled it with water, couldn't fit the original cork back into the bottle but found one in the house that did fit and used it instead, replaced the foil and brought it back to the shop 'unopened' for a replacement bottle of something else ???
There are plenty of unscrupulous people out there, and I wouldn't put it past some of them !!!!
This is the response I got to the above email.
Dear XXXX
I am afraid you have slightly misunderstood my email, please can I clarify as below:
The bottle and labels and markings are from our company and are correct for the wine that was put into the bottle as previously advised.
This wine was shipped by us to several customers in Europe.
However the bottle when filled in Australia was not closed with this cork. Similarly the liquid in the bottle is also not from our bottling plant.
The cork supply company advise us that this cork was manufactured in Belgium for a European retail chain.
It is not possible to determine what wine the cork was put into.
It seems unlikely that the bottle would have been retrieved from a bottle bank - I am assuming that the capsule was intact when you opened it?
We have had no reports of similar problems concerning this wine or any other of our wines in Europe.
I hope this clarifies the situation.
regards
Dear XXXX
I am afraid you have slightly misunderstood my email, please can I clarify as below:
The bottle and labels and markings are from our company and are correct for the wine that was put into the bottle as previously advised.
This wine was shipped by us to several customers in Europe.
However the bottle when filled in Australia was not closed with this cork. Similarly the liquid in the bottle is also not from our bottling plant.
The cork supply company advise us that this cork was manufactured in Belgium for a European retail chain.
It is not possible to determine what wine the cork was put into.
It seems unlikely that the bottle would have been retrieved from a bottle bank - I am assuming that the capsule was intact when you opened it?
It might be helpful if you could ask the people who gave you the bottle where they purchased it from.
We have had no reports of similar problems concerning this wine or any other of our wines in Europe.
I hope this clarifies the situation.
regards
Exactly. It's amazing how many people think a wine is corked when there's a few bits of cork floating about.
What amazes me about this thread is the fact that the op saw that the wine looked strange and then proceeded to drink it.
Absolute madness! Anyway if it's such a cheap wine just put it down to experience and don't waste any more time or energy on it.