I am German so debt avoidance is part of my DNAHave you lost your mind? Ever seen those L'Oréal ads? We're worth it dude. We don't have to live within our means.
We can borrow, after all "that's what governments do"
Bitcoin. Is it a deliberate con ?
- Thread starter cremeegg
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We had a very weak hand as we were borrowing as a country all through the CT and needed to borrow much more post Sept 2008 to maintain the dole, old age pensions and permanent public sector workers. Living beyond our means in the truest sense.
If you compare the Irish "living on the never-never" with that of Estonia (who came out of decades of socialism/communism) the difference couldn't be more stark
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Estonia#The_impact_of_the_financial_crisis_of_2008
On July 2009, Estonian VAT was increased from 18% to 20%.[33] On 9 August 2011, just days after Standard & Poor's downgraded the credit rating of the United States, it raised Estonia's rating from A to AA-. Among the factors S&P cited as contributing to its decision was confidence in Estonia's ability to "sustain strong economic growth."[34]
For Estonia, the late-2000s recession was comparatively easier to weather, because Estonia's budget has consistently been kept balanced, and this meant that Estonia's public debt relative to the country's GDP has remained one of the lowest in Europe.
The answer is obvious to me - we should aim as a country to eradicate all dependence on debt. Then we have control of our own destiny.
I am German so debt avoidance is part of my DNA
I must be part German too!
That would be amazing! but it won't happen will it? as soon as they can politicians will spend as much possible buying voters, like they did before. I figure the austerity was done as a last resort, if the government could have avoided it by borrowing more they would have - they had to be forced by the EU, right?
A bit off topic I worked with a German company on a building project, learned a lot from them, they wouldn't wast a screw, very little waste ,paddy would have a skip full.
Duke of Marmalade
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Oh dear I seem to have triggered a "Big A" Fork in the thread.You really believe that? It's an extreme view for me to feel aggrieved that the cost of the bank failures was socialised?
Fun thought experiment: everyone here should add up the extra USC they paid due to austerity, work out how much bitcoin it could have bought you at the time, and how much it would be worth to you now. There's the upper limit on your opportunity cost
Less fun thought experiment: work out how many people suffered or died either directly or indirectly due to public service funding cuts.
The government has spent more on services than it took in taxes over those years. That is not austerity at the national level.
It will always be the case that but for borrowing that little bit more some folk die.
The bitcoin thought experiment has many variations. If the people of Ireland had become the biggest hoarders of bitcoin on the planet my guess is that Satoshi would have cashed in her chips by now and the bubble would have burst (as it inevitably will per Paul Krugman et al). How many people would have died as a result of diverting all that money into tulips?
Agree. When the Troika came in I sighed a sigh of relief. We are still bound by EU rules and that makes me happy.
You should read that link on Estonia, it's fascinating. Can you imagine if we didn't have to spend almost the same amount of money each year financing our national debt (not reducing mind, just financing!) as we spend on education, what kind of a country we could have?
I am always reminded of the marches in the streets about "bailing out the banks". Such bailouts represent a whopping 20% of our national debt. The rest was Paddy living beyond his means.
Aaaaanyway, back to Bitcoin!
In small part due to the debt we have to service. What would a thread about ireland in the moneymakeover forum look like
You're suggesting a variation I've never mentioned and that I don't support. I'm also not advising anyone buy bitcoin right now.
I suspect Satoshi will never move those coins or they would have already by now, I mean what are they waiting for?
In small part due to the debt we have to service. What would a thread about ireland in the moneymakeover forum look like
Now, that would be fun! I'm tempted, very tempted!!!
Duke of Marmalade
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I said it spent more on services than it took in taxes. I thought it was clear that I was excluding debt servicing. Please don't become like Water and Black Tea where everything has to be semantically perfectIn small part due to the debt we have to service. What would a thread about ireland in the moneymakeover forum look like
sorry! my fault on that one.I said it spent more on services than it took in taxes. I thought it was clear that I was excluding debt servicing. Please don't become like Water and Black Tea where everything has to be semantically perfect
Duke of Marmalade
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Only a matter of time till someone takes a knife to it
I see Emil Oldenberg has sold all his [broken link removed], switching to bitcoin cash instead. Is this him predicting the start of the end of Bitcoin or more an endorsement of bitcoin cash being more viable as a currency and so has a better change of short term growth?
TheBigShort
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I would take a different view. I consider austerity to be the consequence of living beyond your means. Prosperity is attainable by living within your means.
TheBigShort
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That was somewhat my sentiment last June just after buying bitcoin for first time. My initial reaction 'gimme back my money!". But then I went to the sources that I relied on that persuaded me to buy BTC in first place - the tech heads.
While I couldnt get my head around the terminology, there was no prevailing sentiment of fear or panic or that this could kill crypto. The opposite in fact, more a case of this was something that just had to happen and it was time to get on with it.
In my lay mans head way of thinking, I compare it to a car manufacturer recalling a model because the airbag wasnt fitted properly (accepting that this might be way off track!)
That was last June, there was a fork in July and another in Oct.
I should add, there was very little speculation about what it would do to the price also. I found this refreshing, discussions were focus based on the technical effects.
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