Duke of Marmalade
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That's a bare faced lie. In no way did I mention it was being used at scale. And if you want to try and misrepresent that once more, then I'll have to insist on you quoting where I stated it was being used 'at scale'. We have more misrepresentation from you with the 'couple of places' - I clearly mentioned one location by name.Your playing games you know thats a total PR stunt yet your trying to pass it off like its really a thing happening in El Salvador at scale in a couple of places there.
I'm not in any way concerned about 'defending my position' - but given that you've betrayed a lack of understanding of what's at play here, maybe you might want to consider hitting the books. I already cited the view of Alex Gladstein from the Human Rights Foundation on this milestone. Here's the view of Avik Roy - President of the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity:at best you've been taken in my friend by classic PR nonsense..at worst your misrepresenting it to defend your position..
I've had friends who've traveled there and I certainly hope to find the time to get down there towards the end of the year. The work that Mike Petersen is doing there is important and is to be commended.I really hope you travel there and see it for yourself presuming you've swallowed it..
Strike is just another run of the mill remittance business with I'm sure some ripple crypto settlement piece trying to get a piece of the action in a lucrative remittance corridor in this case USA > El Salvdor..
What propaganda? That rather than use Western Union at 10%, Salvadorans will be able to use his service for a couple of % instead? That propaganda? The propaganda that demonstrates that 70% of Salvadorans are locked out of the banking system? If that's what you claim to be propaganda, then provide proof please..and you've bought their propaganda hook line and sinker.
And you're contriving to conflate two separate things. Yes, Strike is a Lightning Network payment app - you know, the lightning network that you said was just a whitepaper!? The Bitcoin Beach project is a community led project that is promoting everyday use of bitcoin as a means of exchange. In a country where the banking system that you marvel about has left 70% of the population unbanked, there is no need for a point of sale terminal. All anyone from a street vendor and upwards needs is a smartphone and a lightning network wallet app.and lets be clear Strike in its current form is just a remittance app.....not 6.5m people paying for a loaf of bread in a shop with Strike point of sale terminals setup like your trying to represent it as.
Breez app is launched and available via the Google play store. I know because I use it regularly. It - along with Phoenix App - are in beta on IOS. So what? How do you think development works exactly?Your Breez app is also vaporware and not launched - not available in either app stores........crappy beta testing junk......and no business listed on their website where Breez is used as actually used as a point of sale : https://play.google.com/apps/testing/com.breez.client https://testflight.apple.com/join/wPju2Du7
All we've seen from you over the last 24 hours is repeated use of the words 'shameless', 'embarrassing' and 'disgusting'. You know what's shameless/embarrassing/disgusting @letitroll? - that you can't even acknowledge that your beloved banking system is rotten to the core and is central to social exclusion in El Salvador and far beyond. You can't even be open minded enough to acknowledge that rather than the poorest of people paying 10% for remittances, it would be a force for the good if they had the opportunity to pay 1 or 2%.Its frankly disgusting and using local poor people as props in a promotional campaign for BTC and Strike to get free media coverage. I know propaganda BS when I see it and you seem like a smart fella this is PR bullshit perpetrated on poor people and your spreading it around. Honestly @tecate you need to get a little streetwise and spot the game being played here.
Ouch! That withering sarcasm hurt. A consolation is that I got a 50 word response to "absolutely nothing".@dukey : Way to go in writing a 250 word post that says absolutely nothing. I've mentioned it before, a career in standup awaits - albeit that it will be a hard road. Until you work on your material a bit more, you'll be dodging rotten apples and tomatoes for a few years.
...you weren't aware that bitcoin currently has its own inflation rate of 1.76%.
By that definition I reckon bitcoin inflation over the last month has been running at over 4,000% p.a. Maybe El Salvadorians are used to that level of inflation. I suppose it depends on your definition of "currently". I chose a month, I presume you chose some other period to suit your narrative. You surely weren't referring to the change in supply alone. I presumed you were aware of the first law of economics, that price is a function of supply AND demand.Investopedia said:What Is Inflation?
Inflation is the decline of purchasing power of a given currency over time. A quantitative estimate of the rate at which the decline in purchasing power occurs can be reflected in the increase of an average price level of a basket of selected goods and services in an economy over some period of time. The rise in the general level of prices, often expressed as a percentage, means that a unit of currency effectively buys less than it did in prior periods.
Ouch! That withering sarcasm hurt. A consolation is that I got a 50 word response to "absolutely nothing".
See above - you really need to start working on some new material. This sort of stuff isn't going to cut it (particularly as the World moves on in spite of your objections).By that definition I reckon bitcoin inflation over the last month has been running at over 4,000% p.a. Maybe El Salvadorians are used to that level of inflation.
On a separate point @letitroll posted a truly disgusting and revealing video clip from the Miami Bitcoin pilgrimage. I see in that a complete endorsement of my description of "cult".
"We will not sell" avows the evangelist as if selling bitcoin is sacrilege
"F... Elon" their equivalent of Satan
You're trying to conflate two separate items to confuse matters, your Dukeness. The programmatic nature of bitcoin means that its inbuilt monetary policy currently establishes a pre-determined inflation rate of 1.76% through coin issuance. You want to conflate this with price action and the price discovery process that is ongoing as we progress through the adoption curve when compared with fiat currency. If we don't look to convert to your fiat monopoly money, then 1 btc = 1 btc today - with an inflation rate of 1.76%.@tecate I suppose if you can't back up your claim that bitcoin inflation is currently running at 1.76% you may as well toss a rotten tomato. On the other hand the manly thing to do would be to admit the mistake.
You're trying to conflate two separate items to confuse matters, your Dukeness. The programmatic nature of bitcoin means that its inbuilt monetary policy currently establishes a pre-determined inflation rate of 1.76% through coin issuance. You want to conflate this with price action and the price discovery process that is ongoing as we progress through the adoption curve when compared with fiat currency. If we don't look to convert to your fiat monopoly money, then 1 btc = 1 btc today - with an inflation rate of 1.76%.
You're welcome.
Sorry, but that is BS, to use @letitroll's technical term. Inflation is a price phenomenon - it is a function of supply AND demand. UK M2 money supply has increased 6 fold over the last 25 years, yet inflation over the same period has only been 50%.The programmatic nature of bitcoin means that its inbuilt monetary policy currently establishes a pre-determined inflation rate of 1.76% through coin issuance.
Do you want to have an intelligent discussion or do you just want to rant and vent? As was pointed out to you, you are conflating a number of things. Breez and Phoenix are lightning network wallets that can be downloaded and used by anyone to transact bitcoin. Lightning Network is a secondary bitcoin payments layer just like visa is a payments layer that runs on top of the conventional system.Breez remittance app - using lightning, oracle database, bla bla whatever it says its using.........its a remittance app.....
Correction. You've unsuccessfully hopped from one objection to the next and that brought you to a totally uninformed and outdated point of attack where you were'nt even aware of the existence of the lightning network payments layer. Secondly, over the course of 4 years of discussion here I have never seen anyone talk in terms of replacing cash/mastercard/visa. I have seen consideration of decentralised cryto-based alternatives being provided as a choice for ordinary people.we've been talkng about an at scale national payments system that supports 1000's of transactions a second such that it could replace cash/mastercard/visa.......
Correction. You said that today, it would take 25 minutes to pay for a loaf of bread and I corrected you on your lack of knowledge on the subject. A loaf of bread can be bought with bitcoin over the lightning network with the transaction completing somewhere between a timeframe of milliseconds and 60 seconds. That's what I said. You swore blind that its not possible when it is.and you use a start up remittance app as an example of how crytpo is ready.
The flagrant ignorance on display is breathtaking. I addressed your point - and I'll do so again for clarity. Your point is that the Bitcoin Beach project is not significant in terms of scale. My point is that I never claimed any such use at scale. However, it is an active demonstration of how bitcoin can be used on a day to day basis going forward.@tecate the main thing I love about your post. Which give me hope that your not a complete cultist......is that you completely side stepped the substance of my 250 word post which was really Bitcoin Beach - i.e. BS Beach........and your smart and dug around that website/press section and googled the hell out of it I'm sure looking for substance & counter factuals to show its 'going great' and adoption is increasing............but there isnt any updates. I think your smart enough to have had enough doubt planted in your mind that I'm right on this one.
Its a PR stunt. Community led!!?!?! how? where you see that, cuase it said it on the site? - its led by some millionaire bitcoin fanatic who wanted to print a press release and give the Miami cult something to talk about.
Ok, so when I arrive there in November inshallah, are you saying that I won't be able to pay for anything with bitcoin? I'm scared to ask but I'll push through the fear with a follow up question. If the answer to the former is that I won't be able to buy anything with BTC, have you've based that on information that you..you've been hoodwinked if you think there's a village right now in El Salodvor where people are running around right now paying for haircuts/groceries
Bitcoin beach is a PR stunt..........an alice (tecate) in wonderland website creation.........I showed you what was behind the curtain...... nothing......two puff piece advertorials in Jan 2020 and thats it..........you've been hoodwinked if you think there's a village right now in El Salodvor where people are running around right now paying for haircuts/groceries
You asked politely so I'll have the good grace to decline your invitation politely.Dont use the word inflation, please - call it bitcoins circulating supply increases 1.76%......its more precise.......
@dukey . I was talking about inflation as it pertains to monetary policy. Bitcoin has one - it's programmed in to it - and coin issuance plays a role in that. I'm not having you confuse matters by not making the distinction. You know perfectly well that Satoshi had no earthly intention of tracking the price of the USD or any fiat currency. Accepting that fact - and bearing in mind it is a fixed supply currency, it stands to reason that if someone looks at its value versus the reigning unit of account of the day, of course it's not going to land onto the market on day one at its final settled price. That price will be determined when it has matured as a digital asset and as a means of exchange and maturity only happens as we progress along the adoption curve. I'm quite happy to acknowledge that price action/volatility is a feature of bitcoin and is likely to be for some years to come - but I'm not entertaining this conflation that you're going on with.Sorry, but that is BS, to use @letitroll's technical term. Inflation is a price phenomenon - it is a function of supply AND demand. UK M2 money supply has increased 6 fold over the last 25 years, yet inflation over the same period has only been 50%.
The demand for bitcoin is almost entirely speculative and that is completely dwarfing any supply stability in terms of its price level. How that is going to serve the people of El Salvador is a mystery to me.
And the wahhabist opposition you put up means that you'll stop at nothing (including bad faith argument) to try and sully something that has never been bad for people - choice.The first commandment of the cult seems to be Never, Never, ever, admit that you are wrong.
The current inflation of bitcoin is not 1.76%, as you stated, no matter what flation you use.
Conveniently for you.I chose a month
I can bet you as many bitcoins as you like that it won't come out at anywhere near 1.76% which was categorically stated by @tecate to be the current btc inflation rate. Is there no limits to your subjugation to your mentor?Conveniently for you.
But the definition you cite clearly implies periods of time greater than an arbitrary month.
In general terms, a time frame of 12 months, y-on-y, is a standard.
Perhaps try your calculation on that basis?
If you had used terms like "pre-programmed" or "Satoshi intended" then there would be no problem. The inflation rate of BTC is not as pre-intended no more than the inflation rate of fiat is as pre-intended.The inflation which is preprogrammed and designed in to the bitcoin protocol is 1.76%. Volatility and price action outside of that is entirely logical for a fixed supply digital asset and currency which is going through the adoption curve. You're going to extreme lengths to prevent that understanding getting out into the ether.
This came up in the context of inflation as monetary policy. with @letitroll feeling aggrieved because he claimed BTC doesn't see another ATH without coming back and accounting for intended fiat inflation. The central bank high priests can't preprogram inflation in the same way as the bitcoin protocol hardwires it in - they have to tinker to try and achieve that.I can bet you as many bitcoins as you like that it won't come out at anywhere near 1.76%.
I have a big problem with you claiming that Satoshi wasn't aware of the price discovery process that would unfold. @letitroll can claim something like that as clearly he's far from up to speed on the topic. However, you've delved into this topic over the course of four years and you know better. Why would he have designed in the halvings and adjustable hash rate otherwise. You can disagree with it - that's fine , but theres no way you can claim that you're not aware of it.If you had used terms like "pre-programmed" or "Satoshi intended" then there would be no problem. The inflation rate is not as pre-intended no more than the inflation rate of fiat is as pre-intended
Duke of Marmalade said:This is not nitpicking. If the El Salvadorian folk think they are buying into a 1.76% inflation rate then what about your prediction of a 80% fall in BTC/$?
I can bet you as many bitcoins as you like that it won't come out at anywhere near 1.76% which was categorically stated by @tecate to be the current btc inflation rate.
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