Bitcoin ETF

Duke of Marmalade said:
Amazing how many of these guys fell for the AAA sub primes. Fidelity know there is a constituency who are pure suckers for big words like diversification and some pseudo math. You won't catch Mr or Ms Fidelity with any bitcoin in their personal portfolio.
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Good generalisation, great reasoning for why nobody should invest in Bitcoin or anything for that matter :rolleyes:
 
DublinHead54 said:
Good generalisation, great reasoning for why nobody should invest in Bitcoin or anything for that matter :rolleyes:
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No. Just a caution that everything that has a pseudo mathematical case for diversification is not necessarily a good investment. But I do substantially believe in the mathematical framework of Markowitz' Modern Portfolio Theory.
Apologies for the exaggerated rhetoric but I do feel I need to call out any suggestion that introducing an ETF endorses BTC as an investment.
It does for sure reflect that there is a significant demand for BTC and not just as a FOMO bet but as an "investment" often built on pseudo lines around diversification. I don't apologise for calling that out.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Don't get your point. I am sure Bitcoin ETFs are of themselves innocent, but surely it is on topic to comment on the reasons why the likes of these guys are introducing Bitcoin ETF.
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Why do you need to call out a firm is only releasing a new product to make money? That is literally what every company in the world does. When Hyundai release their latest model, do you say "they are only doing it to make money".

I guess it is an attempt to reduce the legitimacy of the decision by BlackRock.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
No. Just a caution that everything that has a pseudo mathematical case for diversification is not necessarily a good investment. But I do substantially believe in the mathematical framework of Markowitz' Modern Portfolio Theory.
Apologies for the exaggerated rhetoric but I do feel I need to call out any suggestion that introducing an ETF endorses BTC as an investment.
It does for sure reflect that there is a significant demand for BTC and not just as a FOMO bet but as an "investment" often built on pseudo lines around diversification. I don't apologise for calling that out.
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Note I did not say it was a good investment, I said
DublinHead54 said:
The debate will be its value as an investment product, but it will be an investment product.
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DublinHead54 said:
I guess it is an attempt to reduce the legitimacy of the decision by BlackRock.
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I am sure it is entirely legitimate.
But yes it is an attempt to query the significance of the decision. It may or may not indicate that Blackrock genuinely believe that bitcoin is a valid investment. More likely that they believe there is a market out there who do believe or who can be persuaded to believe it. I could have told them that. The fact is that if Blackrock thought it was crap but still saw a market for it they would sell it, so yes their main raison d'etre, to make money, is a valid consideration in determining the significance of this development.
I don't know if Blackrock have a department dedicated to "prove" bitcoin as an investment as Fidelity do. If they do, it is not in furtherance of human progress but to sell more product. Hey, I'm not against the profit motive, but it must always be taken into account in assessing teh significance of any actions of such agents.
 
DublinHead54 said:
You don't need to guess, Mr BlackRock said it himself

www.coindesk.com

BlackRock CEO Larry Fink Seeing Client Demand for Crypto 'Around The World'

Rumors about spot bitcoin ETF approvals aside, Fink called the recent rally a “flight to quality.”.
www.coindesk.com www.coindesk.com

Again you are missing the point of this thread.

He is giving the people what they want.....those poor gullible individuals as you've described them
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A very interesting link which opens a parallel topic - why is bitcoin enjoying a current spike?
There was a suggestion that Blackrock's ETF move was at least in part behind the spike. So clearly this is reasonably big news in cryptoland. So I ask myself why should it cause a rise in price, reminiscent of its entry to the Chicago Board of Exchange. Two possible reasons - it increases the ease of participation i.e. easier to buy bitcoin and the second reason might be that it shows Blackrock believe in it. It is the latter that I have been questioning, and Mr Blackrock himself seems to demur from such an endorsement.
But Mr Blackrock in an unusual show of modesty denies that their move is behind the spike. No it is due to a flight to "quality". Well, well, well. Does this mean Mr Blackrock finks bitcoin is quality or is he saying there are those who do fink so? I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant the latter.
So how do we explain that bitcoin is up 30% in a month whilst gold is up only 4.75%?
I myself took the spike to be a sort of flight, not to quality, but to an imagined nuclear bunker. Do people really believe that in Armageddon they will smugly be able to check their smartphone and see that they are worth a trillion dollars?
 
Fink, however, did opine on the recent rally. “It’s an example of the pent-up interest in crypto,” he said. “We are hearing from clients around the world about the need for crypto.”

“I think the rally today is about a flight to quality, with all the issues around the Israeli war now, global terrorism,” he continued.

The "need" for crypto?

A "flight to quality"?

That is mad stuff coming from Fink.

Brendan
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
A very interesting link which opens a parallel topic - why is bitcoin enjoying a current spike?
There was a suggestion that Blackrock's ETF move was at least in part behind the spike. So clearly this is reasonably big news in cryptoland. So I ask myself why should it cause a rise in price, reminiscent of its entry to the Chicago Board of Exchange. Two possible reasons - it increases the ease of participation i.e. easier to buy bitcoin and the second reason might be that it shows Blackrock believe in it. It is the latter that I have been questioning, and Mr Blackrock himself seems to demur from such an endorsement.
But Mr Blackrock in an unusual show of modesty denies that their move is behind the spike. No it is due to a flight to "quality". Well, well, well. Does this mean Mr Blackrock finks bitcoin is quality or is he saying there are those who do fink so? I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant the latter.
So how do we explain that bitcoin is up 30% in a month whilst gold is up only 4.75%?
I myself took the spike to be a sort of flight, not to quality, but to an imagined nuclear bunker. Do people really believe that in Armageddon they will smugly be able to check their smartphone and see that they are worth a trillion dollars?
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No offence, but I stopped reading after 'why is bitcoin enjoying a current spike'.
 
DublinHead54 said:
No offence, but I stopped reading after 'why is bitcoin enjoying a current spike'.
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Don't blame me. It was you introduced a link which was all about "why is bitcoin enjoying a current spike?".
BTW no offence taken, I've a thicker skin than that. Explain why you like the cultists have such a thin skin.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Fink, however, did opine on the recent rally. “It’s an example of the pent-up interest in crypto,” he said. “We are hearing from clients around the world about the need for crypto.”

“I think the rally today is about a flight to quality, with all the issues around the Israeli war now, global terrorism,” he continued.

The "need" for crypto?

A "flight to quality"?

That is mad stuff coming from Fink.

Brendan
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I am surprised by his stance on the reasons, at the end of the day BlackRock is a service provider and they are listening to their customers. That is a primary motivator in business decisions.

I personally think the risk-reward ratio of Bitcoin is not very attractive at the moment. However, not all the money in the world can go into buying treasuries.
 
DublinHead54 said:
I am surprised by his stance on the reasons, at the end of the day BlackRock is a service provider and they are listening to their customers. That is a primary motivator in business decisions.

I personally think the risk-reward ratio of Bitcoin is not very attractive at the moment. However, not all the money in the world can go into buying treasuries.
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Of course there are options other than BTC and treasuries.
 
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