Big Brother is tightening his grip.

[cremeegg]

The Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment is seeking the views of the public on a proposal to change the Companies Act 2014 so that addresses of directors do not have be disclosed on the register of directors that every company must keep, or in filings in the Companies Registration Office (CRO).Two recent government proposals are surely a cause of concern, and symptoms of a civili service attitude which is hostile to the ordinary citizen.

Proposed amendments in the General Scheme of the Finance (Tax Appeals and Fiscal Responsibility) Bill 2025 grant the appeal commissioners, not the taxpayer, the discretion to decide whether a tax appeal hearing should be held in camera. https://www.irishtimes.com/your-mon...l-to-name-taxpayers-who-appeal-revenue-bills/

So the ordinary Joe will be exposed to public scrutiny for daring to question his betters. While:

The Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment is seeking the views of the public on a proposal to change the Companies Act 2014 so that addresses of directors do not have be disclosed on the register of directors that every company must keep, or in filings in the Companies Registration Office (CRO).

John McManus: Why we need to know where company directors live

Limited liability is a social contract, part of which is that owners and directors are publicly identifiable

www.irishtimes.com

 

[JoeRoberts]

I can only assume this follows recent disclosures about who are running Ipas centres and other such accomodation for the state.

 

[Marsupial]

Two recent government proposals are surely a cause of concern, and symptoms of a civili service attitude which is hostile to the ordinary citizen.

This ex-civili (sic) servant is extremely hostile to "ordinary citizens" who launch such ill-founded attacks on our excellent civil service without a shread of evidence. (Especially when the said "ordinary citizen" appears to believe that "goverment proposals" are made not by the Government but by civili servants!)

 

[JoeRoberts]

excellent civil service

Can we really take this as a given ? RTB, Tusla, Opw, Uisce Eireann...

 

[Towger]

Government but by civili servants

Civil Servants are the Permanent Government, who in many cases hold more power than the elected public representatives.

 

[Sue Ellen]

Civil Servants are the Permanent Government, who in many cases hold more power than the elected public representatives.

Definitely.

 

[mathepac]

Yes Minister!

 

[Sister Sara]

Civil Servants are the Permanent Government,

Yes.

who in many cases hold more power than the elected public representatives.

Not really. All power resides in the signature of the elected rep, the Minister, with Cabinet approval.

Albeit I understand the point.

On topic, I think one of the caveats is that corrupt directors, or directors that have questions to answer may move around easily from address to address. And a legal requirement to identify the director, at an address, is proving to be a hinderance in bringing some directors for alleged wrongdoing to account e.g. Sister Sara, of 12 Heavenly Divinity, is not the same Sister Sara, of 12 Eternal Damnation.

Sister Sara may be residing in 12 Eternal Damnation, and may be arrested at 12 Eternal Damnation, but the director of the company resides at 12 Heavenly Divinity. And CRO practices are extemely loose and antiquated with keeping this detail up to date.

I worked in this area for years. The scope for individuals to set up limited companies at the drop of hat is alarmingly. Anyone can do it, very cheaply, almost instant.
If you were someone involved in a multitude of corrupt practices - money laundering, tax fraud, slave labour, human trafficking, etc, hiding behind a 'limited company' is a gift.
A requirement to identify the director of said 'limited company' by their registered CRO address is gift x 2.

At least that is my understanding of the proposals.

 

[JoeRoberts]

Not really. All power resides in the signature of the elected rep, the Minister, with Cabinet approval.

Do you really think they read the detail or understand the detail of what they sign ?

 

[Sister Sara]

Do you really think they read the detail or understand the detail of what they sign ?

I think it would be easier for you to identify legislation that Ministers that have not read or understood the detail of what they are signing?

The are elected public figures, they are front-benchers, they are career politicians.

A Ministerial post is the ambition. With respect to all political hues, you do not get there by not reading or not knowing the detail of what you are signing!

 

[JoeRoberts]

I think it would be easier for you to identify legislation that Ministers that have not read or understood the detail of what they are signing

They read a summary prepared for them by the civil servants

 

[Sister Sara]

They read a summary prepared for them by the civil servants

I would suggest that you inquire on how the legislative process works.

 

[JoeRoberts]

I know well how it works. You seem to think our ministers read and understand the detail of every bill they sign...my god. Do they also delve into all the related acts and cross amendments ?
Do you think a CEO who signs a 300 page property lease reads and understands the nuances of the various clauses ..of course not, he relies on the legal team brief. No different for a minister

 

[Sister Sara]

Do you think a CEO who signs a 300 page property lease reads and understands the nuances of the various clauses ..of course not, he relies on the legal team brief. No different for a minister

It's completely different. There is little comparison between the two.

A piece of legislation forms part of public policy of political party, a public policy that the said Minister most likely campaigned for or acted as an advocate for while in opposition. The said Minister will be wholly aware of how a bill is proceeding, amendments to it, the opposition to it, etc.

A CEO signing a property release in engaged in a commercial transaction and has paid solicitors to ensure that the document is legally sound. A CEO is not subjected to anywhere near the same scrutiny as a government Minister by media or by the public.

 

[JoeRoberts]

The said Minister will be wholly aware of how a bill is proceeding, amendments to it, the opposition to it, etc

What does a primary school teacher that becomes a minister know about tax, medical, housing, planning, environmental, foreign policy, eu law...little or nothing. The list is endless. But suddenly because they become a Minister in that area they become such an expert overnight to fully comprehend the relevant legislation in detail . Then after a cabinet reshuffle they are a Minister for something else and now another expert overnight.
They are largely figureheads running the department giving and taking top level guidance. They even get the answers to dail questions handed to them.

 

[Sister Sara]

What does a primary school teacher that becomes a minister know about tax, medical, housing, planning, environmental, foreign policy, eu law...little or nothing. The list is endless. But suddenly because they become a Minister in that area they become such an expert overnight to fully comprehend the relevant legislation in detail .

By that reckoning, as most people are not experts in multi-fields then most people shouldn't comment on any piece of legislation! So why bother with a public consultation?

You don't have to be expert in multi-fields to be able to make a political decision, to want a political outcome.

Back on topic and I could be wrong, but I suspect in some small part the proposed changes to Company Law are to prevent the abuse of the system by a small number of directors that use the requirement of a residing address to circumvent accountability when it comes to alleged wrong-doing.

 

[Marsupial]

Can we really take this as a given ? RTB, Tusla, Opw, Uisce Eireann...

RTB staff aren't civili servants;

Tusla staff aren't civili servants;

Uisce Eireann staff aren't civili servants;

But OPW staff are, so you got 25% in your exam. Well done! Your prize is a parking space in the Leinster House bicycle shed!

 

[Purple]

What does a primary school teacher that becomes a minister know about tax, medical, housing, planning, environmental, foreign policy, eu law...little or nothing. The list is endless. But suddenly because they become a Minister in that area they become such an expert overnight to fully comprehend the relevant legislation in detail . Then after a cabinet reshuffle they are a Minister for something else and now another expert overnight.

There's big different between qualification and education. A politician who becomes a cabinet minister has, in the vast majority of cases, been a politician for years, sat on committees and probably been a junior minister. It's a very difficult and arduous job and most of them, from all political hues, are very smart people. They have experience and an education beyond what they would have had with a qualification alone.
My issue with the permanent government is that they are a block on what can be done and an information filter for the minister. It's very difficult for a minister to go against the "advice" of the senior civil servants in their department. That's why it is so important that Ministers are allowed to appoint those much hated paid advisers.