Bidding lower than was orginally agreed!

Streets said:
Hi - we are sale agreed on our house (of which we were owner occupiers) and will make a profit of approx 200k. we are probably going to rent while we wait to buy something at reasonable prices and hopefully house prices will drop as we do so.

We will use the 200k in the following way (very rough figures):
  • 30k for new car (never had a nice new car before!!)
  • 20k to rid of all loans
  • 50k on stamp when we eventually buy
  • 100k on house price
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I don't want to contravene any posting guidelines by being too rude, but OP, frankly, I have absolutely no sympathy with you whatsoever. You were licking your chops at the prospect of becoming debt free, having a new car and a nice chunk off your next mortgage, but the moment a small chunk of this free lunch is jeopardised, you start whinging like a baby. It is massively obnoxious IMO.

Streets said:
Can we not do deals ithout trying to screw each other?
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So let me ask you this: who do you think was going to pay for your new car other than some poor schlub paying through the nose for your house? Eh? How can you moan about being screwed now when the price of your massively inflated asset was in effect screwing someone else in the first place?

"I was only charging the going rate" you might counter. Yeah? Well, guess what, the buyer of your home is attempting to do the exact same thing now. So who's screwing who? Sorry, that's the way it works unless you think it's a zero-sum game where everyone wins and new cars drop out of the magic Irish sky like raindrops. And if roles were reversed are you telling me you wouldn't do the same? Didn't think so.

Finally, you say:

Streets said:
Like i said before in an earlier post, its not the amount of money involved (which everyone seems to jump on), its the fact that we in Ireland pretty much feel it is acceptable for this type of behaviour to go on.
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Not about the money? Then just suck up the 25k and stop whinging. You are in an awesome situation and moaning about it make you sound like a spoiled Celtic Tiger brat.

This entire thread makes me feel dirty just for having read it. The soon the Celtic Tiger entitlement culture is a nasty memory the better.
 
Treehouse - Well said, I have heard many people say similar things in recent weeks. I feel the OP's mentality is shocking to say the least.
 
At the end of the day, nobody likes being down money or getting less than they expected. I can understand the OP being annoyed if the sale process was deliberately dragged out so that the buyer could put in a reduced offer.

However, it is all relative. OP will loose the €25K here, but gain back the €25K when they buy their new property. OP cant have it all ways. The curse thing is just plain nasty and small minded.
 
remember you are in a "buyer's market" and that's the name of the game. you should be glad you have someone to buy your house at all.
 
With your mentality and attitude regarding your prospective buyer, if I were them, I would happily tell you where to stick your house.

I don't mean to contravene current posting guidelines, but your attitude is appalling.

I wouldn't buy from you. But good luck with your sale and your new car.
 
Ok thanks everyone for your advice.......some people seem bitter that I'm making a healthy profit. But that wasnt the point of the post. I never mentioned a monetary amount initially but someone decided to go snooping in my previous posts, which seems odd, but obviously acceptable. This is the point of the post:
If a typical deal from sale agreed to signing of contracs takes 2 months, would you accept a 5% gazumping over this normal timeframe?
The buyer engineered the extra delay of 1.5 months to purposely take advantage of the economic situation. This frustrated me. I'm sure every single one of you would be equally frustrated.
The black magic reference was a joke that got out of hand and obviously rubbed people up the wrong way. Personally i dont believe in it, but some people here think it was poor form so i take it back. No offence meant.
The actual result is that we have agreed to meet half way at a reduction of 2.5%. I just hope some of you who were so quick to jump on the bashing bandwagon dont experience engineered gazumping because its a nasty experience when it happens to you.
 
I've no sympathy for the loss of money - that's part of the risk you take when investing in anything. And at the end of the day you're just losing the cherry on the icing, not the icing itself.

However, I am with you that if someone agrees to buy a property they should go through with it at the agreed price. Delaying like that smacks of sharp practice, and just because it was done on the way up doesn't mean it should be done when the markets turn. To me a deal is a deal, and don't like it when people don't hold up their end.

And for the record I have sold property in the past and once the deal was made I refused a higher offer. To me a bit of honour and self respect is worth more than a bit of cash.
 
j26 said:
I've no sympathy for the loss of money - that's part of the risk you take when investing in anything. And at the end of the day you're just losing the cherry on the icing, not the icing itself.

However, I am with you that if someone agrees to buy a property they should go through with it at the agreed price. Delaying like that smacks of sharp practice, and just because it was done on the way up doesn't mean it should be done when the markets turn. To me a deal is a deal, and don't like it when people don't hold up their end.

And for the record I have sold property in the past and once the deal was made I refused a higher offer. To me a bit of honour and self respect is worth more than a bit of cash.
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Totally agree with you j26.
I don't like it when people don't hold up to their bargains especially when I always hold up to mine.

To you Streets - I would have told them to stuff it and put it back on the market again because you don't know if they are going to do the same thing again.
You just can't trust them.

To every one who is knocking Streets you should save your ammo for the big developers who have made a serious killing for the last few years off our backs.
 
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Exactly J26 and SLF - that was what i was getting at. It seems now in Ireland that we are all trying to screw each other when it comes to property. When it comes to any business deal and you shake on it only to renege to get a better deal should be completely frowned upon. But no - we accept it here (including myself seeing that i took there reduced offer!). I would not do this to anyone when i agree a price and shake on a deal. Buying and selling a house can be quite an emotional rollercoaster and to do this at the last minute is dispicable.
I'm glad some of you got the message of this post although maybe i wasnt that clear at the beginning.
 
Streets said:
some people seem bitter that I'm making a healthy profit.
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Ah yes, the accusation of bitterness. This is absolutely to be expected from a spoilt child of the Celtic Tiger who can't accept criticism and thinks the world owes him a living (and a new car). I had not expected originality in the Streets inevitable response to critical posts, because we don't do originality of thought in this country any more, just herd instincts and herd responses. Moooooooooooooooooooo!

Streets said:
I never mentioned a monetary amount initially but someone decided to go snooping in my previous posts, which seems odd, but obviously acceptable.
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Snooping? Oh dear. You post on a public message board and when your own freely-posted words are used to criticise you, it takes on a sinister "snooping" hue? Absolutely pathetic.
 
Streets, maybe you should think before you type in future because to be honest the only person that came off bitter was you, and you were the one who brought black magic so only yourself to blame on that one ! To be honest I hope everything goes well for you because I am a nice, not bitter person !
 
Treehouse said:
"I was only charging the going rate" you might counter. Yeah? Well, guess what, the buyer of your home is attempting to do the exact same thing now. So who's screwing who? Sorry, that's the way it works unless you think it's a zero-sum game where everyone wins and new cars drop out of the magic Irish sky like raindrops.
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A zero sum game requires the winners gain to match the losers loss (thats why its a zero sum). Your zero sum game where everyone wins is an oxymoron!
 
I also think people are giving Streets an unnecessarily hard time here. The point of the original post was whether we all thought that someone attempting to renegotiate a deal after a delay that appears to be their own doing is fair or not. Considering some of the invective Streets has been subjected to, I think s/he he has shown considerable restraint. I've seen lots of other people (in other threads) lose the head over much more innoccuous comments.

The issue is not whether Streets is being greedy in looking for "money or more money" but whether the practice of gazundering is morally ok or not. Now, some people say "well we all got gazumped in the rising market; this is just kharma going around the other way" and, as a general comment, this has some merit. However, just because other people do it doesn't make it right. Nor can we in any way speculate whether Streets themselves has ever been a gazumper (I bloody well hope not Streets or else I'll be crushed!) If we feel that gazumping is wrong (and it seems that everyone does) then, by the same rationale, gazundering is wrong.

Is the practice of re-negotiating a deal after it's been agreed where (i) the delay is due to your own delay and (ii) circumstances haven't changed so much as to *fundamentally* alter the deal (and I don't consider even a 10% drop in estimated price to be a fundamental change) morally wrong?

Sprite
 
Agree with you Watersprite, to a point. I can understand Streets being annoyed at someone reneging on the deal, or dragging it out so they could get the property for less. There is also nothing wrong in wanting to buy yourself a new car (we have all done it) or wanting to get the best possible price for your property when selling. There are many posters here too, I would think, who have made serious profits through the rise in the property market.

I don't think the majority of people have an issue with that side of it. It was the references to wishing bad on people. I first took it firstly as a joke, but then OP reiterated that he was serious, which is what I dont agree with and I think people just dont have time for that type of thing and it looked like the OP was being personally vindictive. OP I think realises that the joke got out of hand and I dont think that people would have been quite so harsh otherwise. Perhaps I am wrong?
 
Yep- I was going to mention the whole "black magic" thing as the only real error in judgment but decided to take OP at his/her word that it was a joke. Agree completely that, if OP agrees to take a reduced price, then that's the decision made and that should be an end to it and let there be no poo-ing on the carpet on the way out!

Sprite
 
MandaC said:
Agree with you Watersprite, to a point. I can understand Streets being annoyed at someone reneging on the deal, or dragging it out so they could get the property for less. There is also nothing wrong in wanting to buy yourself a new car (we have all done it) or wanting to get the best possible price for your property when selling. There are many posters here too, I would think, who have made serious profits through the rise in the property market.

I don't think the majority of people have an issue with that side of it. It was the references to wishing bad on people. I first took it firstly as a joke, but then OP reiterated that he was serious, which is what I dont agree with and I think people just dont have time for that type of thing and it looked like the OP was being personally vindictive. OP I think realises that the joke got out of hand and I dont think that people would have been quite so harsh otherwise. Perhaps I am wrong?
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I agree with you there MandaC. I could see the reason why the OP would be annoyed, although I could see it from the buyers point of view also. However, when the OP confirmed that he was serious about the black magic, well any little sympathy I had went right out the window at that point.
Now regardless if people on here think black magic is a load of mumbo jumbo or not, the fact that the OP was wishing such ill will on someone is vindictive and disgusting behaviour in my opinion.
The OP has now said he was joking about that, hmmm well personally I don't believe he was.
 
Go back 2 years and can you imagine the comments we'd be seeing if the vendor tried to raise the price just prior to signing.
 
Some disgruntled First Time Buyer (who set up Voodoo4U.com) was gazumped ruthlessly by a heartless seller on the 6th June 2002 and cast a black magic spell on the greed in the Irish property market and it has taken 6 years to unfold.

Why 6th June 2002? Well, let us say the property boom began in June 1996, so 6th June 2002 is the 6th day of the 6th month of the 6th year. 666 The number of the beast!!

It took six years for the spell to unfold. (Again 6 and we are into the June, the 6th month)

To lift the hex, it was necessary to make a ritual sacrifice. Who should it be? It has to be BBBBBertie. De man of de people! Someone who sailed the ship whilst our trainee black magic woman and would-be FTB lost out! Someone who is the public face of the celtic tiger, a vicious beast who mauled many a poor FTB, leaving them with a mortgage the size of Mount Everest and a 4 hour daily commute from Cavan.

These are the facts:

Bertie was appointed Taoiseach on the 6th June 2002. (6/6)
He resigned on 6th May 2008 (he meant June but face it folks, figures never really were his strong point) some 6 years after his appointment. Too much of a coincidence??

Now, as you see the OP has kindly agreed not to proceed with the curse from his mate working in a call centre for SpellsRUs , which is good because to continue would only result in centuries of good fighting evil rather like Chris de Burgh's Spanish Train, where incidentally, the Lord and the Devil are now playing chess somewhere in High Rise hell on the Spanish Costas where it is rumoured that a Mr. M. Lynn and a Mr. T. Byrne are 1st class passengers on that train.

Ye of little faith!

(Edited to Add- Streets, I am not in any way making fun of your situation, just making light hearted banter, I hope you get your sale signed off soon)
 
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