bias in the work force against those with no kids

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pinkyBear

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Sorry this is a particulary un PC rant but here it goes. We dont have kids and I work in IT - we have a release due out soon and all are working flat out to get things done on time - yesterday I put in a 13.5 hour day - today will probably be the same...
The parents of children - gone after the 8 hours - leaving the rest of us to pick up the flack...:mad:
 
Ah, that's a great one altogether . . . people who work an 8 hour day per contract are somehow being unfair to you.

If you have a problem then it should be with your employer, not with the people you work with.

z
 
not quite the same but many years ago i relied on dublin bus to get me to work, one particularly bad week i was late every morning by 5 to 15 minutes and was hauled in for being late, i retorted that I'm always here til 6 (finished at 5) he said i'd dont pay you til 6 but i start paying you at 9am, so from then on i made sure to be in a 9 but no matter what the issue was I always left at 5.
 
No I dont get overtime or time in lieu - I have a friend in Medicine who also has the same issue with being stuck with work that belongs to others because they have kids and they leave.
Dont get me wrong - I do have a heart, I would never expect anyone to work consistantly above what they should. But why should poeple with no kids take the additional work from those that do have kids....

In certain industries - like IT - there are times - not that often that the team do have to pull together to get stuff done...Extra hours are worked, what ever it takes.....
 
pinkyBear said:
No I dont get overtime or time in lieu - I have a friend in Medicine who also has the same issue with being stuck with work that belongs to others because they have kids and they leave.
Dont get me wrong - I do have a heart, I would never expect anyone to work consistantly above what they should. But why should poeple with no kids take the additional work from those that do have kids....

In certain industries - like IT - there are times - not that often that the team do have to pull together to get stuff done...Extra hours are worked, what ever it takes.....
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Do you HAVE to stay? Can some arrangement not be worked out with employer that everyone is putting in equal time in these scenarios?
I understand where you are coming from - I dont think its people with kids causing the problem, its a personal choice if you want to go home or not - the people with kids choose to go, you choose to stay.
 
It's a fair point pinkyBear but who decides to give the people with kids permission to go home? Was it actually announced to the team. "If you have kids, you can leave now, if you have none, you must stay until the work is complete" ?

If so, that seems unfair. If however, no notice was given about the requirement to stay late what would you expect people with prior commitments to do, if they have kids or not.

Either way, it just sounds like bad/lazy management to me. If you feel you are being taken advantage of by your employer you should complain but blaming collegues with dependants is a bit unrealistic, is it not?
 
ubiquitous said:
I think your employer is understaffed...
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Not necessarily. It's quite common in IT - particularly in the software development sector to have to work very long hours to meet scheduling deadlines. Hiring extra staff would mean a lot of people twiddling thumbs during leaner periods, and the learning curve involved makes it impractical to simply hire extra staff in the run-up to a deadline.

Ideally, of course, the deadline would be set in such a manner as to not require such a push for the finish. However, in my experience the customer only really begins to focus on their requirements as the deadline approaches and they seem to think nothing of making major changes or adding extra features practically at the last minute.

I just think it is a tough sector in which to maintain a relationship let alone kids! Most employers remain firmly stuck in dotcom mode, expecting employees to work impossible hours for low pay even though they can no longer dream of retiring as millionaires in their mid-thirties!
 
Pinkbear - I'm not sure I understand the issue - why don't you just leave at 6 if you want to?

What difference does having children make?
 
This is something I would envisage a difficulty if I was ever to have children. My work schedule is so erratic that I it wouldn't be fair of me to have children at the moment. Naturally you lose flexibility because children have to be collected from school/minders, have to be brought to extra-curricular activities, have to be fed etc. Children are totally dependent so unless you are in a position to let other things take a back seat, then it's a virtually impossible situation. They can't just be left to their own devices because Mum and Dad have a deadline in work.

I guess because these parents work the 8 hours expected of them then you can't gripe about them really. I'm sure if these colleagues are as conscientious as you, then they feel bad enough about having to leave others to finish up the work, but what can they do about it realistically? They have different priorities. They HAVE to have different priorities because they have children depending on them.
 
Pinky Bear,

A lot of companies in the private sector are like this. They don't really have enough people to get all the work done in the normal workilng week. You mentioned that sometimes the IT business is quiet. Could you not ask to get time off in lieu for the extra hours you work when meeting a deadline? I know it is not all that simple to do this if no one else is doing it.

I know that people with families are probably using their families as an excuse to get out of work at a reasonable time. I bet even people who have teenage children are doing this. Yet they are all getting paid the same as you and all the other people without children.

Maybe you and some other people without children could just start to leave a bit earlier as well. As long as you and others are working long hours the Co. won't get in contract staff & solve this. Sometimes things have to come to a head (missing the deadline) for the Co. to take note & bring in better work practices.

Failing that, I would advise you to try and move to an industry/job with more normal working hours. I worked extra hours for free over the last couple of years in jobs. I think it can intefere with health if you work long hours all the time. Now I am on panels for the public sector. Will take pay cut if I move but health & the chance of a family is worth it.
 
Room305 seems to have a good understanding of the nature of the IT business. It is difficult to hire additional staff just to cover release times.

Maybe you and some other people without children could just start to leave a bit earlier as well.
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- it is not that straight forward - as there are very strict deadlines that have to be met. If they dont get met - the contract oobligations are not met/ or no sale happens - we are out of a job!
My point is really, team work - it is noticed that during times of priority the parents are no where to be seen and it is left to others to tidy things up...

I understand children too are priorites and naturally they come first - but once in a while it would be nice to have some support...
 
As long as these deadlines are being met this will continue. It sounds like there is a culture in your company that accepts that these people can go home early while others pick up the tab? In this case it can be hard to stand against it. I've had similar problems in the past with being "forced" by culture to cover people going home to the country.

You should bring your concerns to management though. At the end of the day, remember that you are subsidising these people. It should definitely form part of your next pay review.
 
It sounds like there is a culture in your company that accepts that these people can go home early while others pick up the tab?
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The company I work for are surprisingly nice - but it is the culture of the industry. The company have worked hard ensuring reasonable plans are in place, and adaquate staffing levels.. But in this business things can unexpectantly can go wrong at the last minute...
 
pinkyBear, I feel a little better that I'm not the only one that thinks this way !

I'm in the exact same situation where leaving after the 8-hour day is impossible because of deadlines but the queue of people leaving bang on time is ridiculous.

OT isn't paid and time in lieu is returned about 20-30% of what was actually earned.

The attitude seems to be "Shure you don't have kids, what do you need to go so 'early' for?".

At times, you feel like you need to apologise for having to leave after 10-11 hours !

Bear in mind, most managers are long gone but dealing with US customers means the day can stretch till 10-11pm regularly.
 
The point you make about team work would be a good one to raise at your next review, or even before. Let the managers then manage the situation better, bearing in mind all their employees situations.
 
pinkyBear said:
- it is not that straight forward - as there are very strict deadlines that have to be met. If they dont get met - the contract oobligations are not met/ or no sale happens - we are out of a job!
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it doesnt seem to bother the parents....
 
contemporary said:
it doesnt seem to bother the parents....
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I'm sure it does. One can't assume that they are ok with leaving bang on time and leaving work to their colleagues. They are in a bit of a no win situation, unless they are lucky enough to have full time support who can do the parenting for them when the pressure is on at work.
 
pinkyBear said:
- it is not that straight forward - as there are very strict deadlines that have to be met. If they dont get met - the contract oobligations are not met/ or no sale happens - we are out of a job!
My point is really, team work - it is noticed that during times of priority the parents are no where to be seen and it is left to others to tidy things up...
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Presumably the parents too are aware of these deadlines - do none of them feel the same pressure/responsibility that you appear to feel?

Have you tried simply 'leaving on time' even when you know there is work to be done?
 
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