Beneficiary issue

Veast5

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12
Hi everyone,

I'm glad to have found this resource. I am executor to a will, the instructions of which are very clear and precise so there is no ambiguity.

It was my mother's wish that the family house be sold and divided equally amongst 9 siblings. 4 of these siblings live abroad. 2 for different reasons are making it difficult to obtain their PPS number. The will has been left over a year with 2 previous executors failing to even start proceedings. I have gathered and submitted all relevant information I have up until this time.

My question is: with several siblings trying to move this forward and some not cooperating, is there a way to start the probate application regardless?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
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Thirsty

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2,969
Are you doing DIY probate? Or do you have a solicitor?

Have you told the unco-operative siblings that they can't have their share without the PPS number?
 

Veast5

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Are you doing DIY probate? Or do you have a solicitor?

Have you told the unco-operative siblings that they can't have their share without the PPS number?

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, there is a solicitor involved.

I told both that they will be unable to receive their share. One is taking a moral high ground about they want no interest in money. When asked if they wish to decline their share of the inheritance the subject quickly changes.

The other wants to purchase the property. I would have no issue with this but he doesn't have the money are ability to do so in any capacity. They both live abroad.

I will put it to the solicitor to proceed then.

Thanks!
 

Veast5

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Yes, you can go ahead with probate.

The solicitor has advised me to collect as much info as possible. I've exhausted all attempts to get these 2 to co operate.

What do I tell the solicitor to do to get him to progress?
 

Clamball

Registered User
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234
My husband had the same issue with a sibling who would not give him a pps number because “he did not have enough time to grieve”. But while clearing out his mothers house my husband found various bits of paperwork and one had his brothers pps number on it so he was able to progress. Of course months later it was “what is the delay and where is my share of the sale”. Families!

Whah husband was planning to do was obtain his brothers birth certificate from the births, deaths and marriages office. Not sure if he would have failed at that point, then contact dept of social welfare and ask for his brothers pps no with all his proof on why he needed it. He probably would have failed but at least he would have tried.

What you should ultimately do is instruct your solicitor to get probate, progress with the sale, distribute the money to the 7 cooperative siblings. Then send a letter to the last two saying estate is complete, they can apply to the solicitor for their portion whenever they want. The solicitor holds their money in the client account and they deal with the solicitor, whenever they feel the need to obtain the cash.

As executor you can proceed without co-operation from the beneficiaries. Just instruct your solicitor.
 

Veast5

Registered User
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12
My husband had the same issue with a sibling who would not give him a pps number because “he did not have enough time to grieve”. But while clearing out his mothers house my husband found various bits of paperwork and one had his brothers pps number on it so he was able to progress. Of course months later it was “what is the delay and where is my share of the sale”. Families!

Whah husband was planning to do was obtain his brothers birth certificate from the births, deaths and marriages office. Not sure if he would have failed at that point, then contact dept of social welfare and ask for his brothers pps no with all his proof on why he needed it. He probably would have failed but at least he would have tried.

What you should ultimately do is instruct your solicitor to get probate, progress with the sale, distribute the money to the 7 cooperative siblings. Then send a letter to the last two saying estate is complete, they can apply to the solicitor for their portion whenever they want. The solicitor holds their money in the client account and they deal with the solicitor, whenever they feel the need to obtain the cash.

As executor you can proceed without co-operation from the beneficiaries. Just instruct your solicitor.

You would have thought that someone would feel privileged to be named as a beneficiary eh?

Thanks for your advice. Before I found this forum I was tip toeing around people who are treating me like trash. I didn't realize that the onus is on them to cooperate and not me to placate their nonsense.

I will instruct the solicitor to proceed.
 

PMU

Registered User
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1,045
One is taking a moral high ground about they want no interest in money. When asked if they wish to decline their share of the inheritance the subject quickly changes.
You should write to the two non-resident beneficiaries asking for their PPSNs as you need these to settle any inheritance tax issues of the non-resident beneficiaries that may arise. This is a complex issue and e.g. you could look at this: CAT – Part 02 - Statement of Affairs (Probate) Form SA.2 (revenue.ie) .

You should also ask them to confirm in writing if they are or are not disclaiming their interest in the inheritance, as again this has tax implications.
 

Veast5

Registered User
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12
You should write to the two non-resident beneficiaries asking for their PPSNs

I have done this several times now over the last couple of months and am met with the same runaround answers.

I have also asked them to confirm if they wish to disclaim their share.

There's unlikely to be tax issues as the estate isn't worth a lot and is being shared 9 ways.
 

valery

Registered User
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132
For form SA2, PPS number is required for any beneficiary who will receive €12,000 or more
 

Veast5

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For form SA2, PPS number is required for any beneficiary who will receive €12,000 or more

Ok cool, my solicitor will know of this I'm sure. Although I don't even think the estate will bare that much.
 

Veast5

Registered User
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12
Update: I've instructed the solicitor to proceed with the probate application.

He has previously expressed that he needs all info to progress. Both troublesome beneficiaries (living abroad) still haven't submitted their pps numbers.

I've also bluntly asked him to be more forthcoming with information as I feel he's drip feeding me.

I'll post after his response.
 
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Seagull

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Are the PPS numbers needed for probate or selling the property? I would have expected them only to be needed for distribution.
 

Veast5

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Are the PPS numbers needed for probate or selling the property? I would have expected them only to be needed for distribution.

This is the Grey area I was needing clarification on. My solicitor has being vague about this in correspondence. I have been trying everything to get these 2 people to respond so I can proceed and start taking proper care of the estate.

He also failed to inform me that I could access funds from her bank account to pay for expenses.
 

Thirsty

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He also failed to inform me that I could access funds from her bank account to pay for expenses
Whose bank account? If you mean the deceased, you can't. For very limited circumstances, e.g. funeral expenses, banks will pay invoices direct, but you won't be allowed to draw funds until probate is completed.
 

Veast5

Registered User
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Whose bank account? If you mean the deceased, you can't. For very limited circumstances, e.g. funeral expenses, banks will pay invoices direct, but you won't be allowed to draw funds until probate is completed.

Yeah, I need to pay burial expenses. Would that be applicable?
 

Thirsty

Registered User
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2,969
Yes.

You ask the funeral director to send the invoice directly to the bank.

It's a standard practice & as long as the funds are there it will be paid promptly.
 
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