"Belfast" vs "Good Friday" agreement

[odyssey06]

Well ok, out of the hundreds (thousands?) of languages and dialects exception made for global languages of English, Spanish, French, Chinese.
Although having said that the only time I ever used French was on holiday in France.
The only time I used Spanish, likewise, although on that occasion I got the raised eyebrows and 'easier if we just communicate in English bud', look.

Thats why having French is more important than Spanish!
Spanish speakers more likely to have English.

 

[Betsy Og]

Their policies are a bar to non nationals, which is just a subtle way of barring them.
I dont mean they were setup to do that deliberately by their founders but it has had that consequence and is one of the reasons for their popularity in certain areas.

That's like saying the Catholic Church is a bar to Muslims. It is what it is, you are free to join no more than the next man, if for whatever reason you decide against its hardly the fault of that school.

 

[odyssey06]

That's like saying the Catholic Church is a bar to Muslims. It is what it is, you are free to join no more than the next man, if for whatever reason you decide against its hardly the fault of that school.

Its nothing like that at all.
Children are obliged legally to attend school and there is a shortage of school places in some areas.
In such areas gaelscoils should be not be encouraged.

 

[WolfeTone]

In such areas gaelscoils should be not be encouraged

What type of schools should be encouraged?
Gaelscoileanna are not exclusive. Students who emerge from Gaelscoileanna are as proficient in English as they are in Irish.
Gaelscoileanna are no barrier to education for any student.

 

[odyssey06]

What type of schools should be encouraged?
Gaelscoileanna are not exclusive. Students who emerge from Gaelscoileanna are as proficient in English as they are in Irish.
Gaelscoileanna are no barrier to education for any student.

Of course they are. Is someone going to transfer into Gaelscoil who has come from abroad or outside the Gaelscoileanna system?
The kids who move around a lot, whether that's country or postcode...
It is clearly a barrier to those people, trying to join the system at a later age... where do those kids end up?
So it becomes a closed system. And comes back to my point about social sorting.

 

[WolfeTone]

Of course they are.

Of course they are not. Gaelscoileanna make up less than 6% of the entire primary school network.
If there is a shortage of school places it has little to do with Gaelscoileanna which can be as oversubscribed as non-Gaelscoileanna.

Is someone going to transfer into Gaelscoil who has come from abroad or outside the Gaelscoileanna system?

I don't really understand your point. I don't know of any area in the country that does not cater for Gaelscoileanna where there is a deficit of primary school places for non-Gaelscoileanna, do you?

 

[odyssey06]

Of course they are not. Gaelscoileanna make up less than 6% of the entire primary school network.
If there is a shortage of school places it has little to do with Gaelscoileanna which can be as oversubscribed as non-Gaelscoileanna.

I don't really understand your point. I don't know of any area in the country that does not cater for Gaelscoileanna where there is a deficit of primary school places for non-Gaelscoileanna, do you?

And those are the numbers they should stay at. A niche in the system not something to be encouraged.

Is someone going to transfer into Gaelscoil who has come from abroad or outside the Gaelscoileanna system?
And what kind of kids are they likely to be? Kids who move around a lot. Kids with accents.
Kids that certain types of parents don't want their kids schooling with.

And why we shouldn't presume that numbers attending Gaelscoileanna necessarily equals a great hunger for the language.

 

[Betsy Og]

Odyssey - there's no good reason for non-nationals to not send their kids to gaelscoileanna - they don't have english either so it's no big deal, kids thrive on multiple languages, ourselves and the Brits are the laggards in this regard. Also, many are born in Ireland so would be starting the same as their "native" classmates at age 5.

I don't believe in discouraging a beneficial schooling because them what never could be bothered....quelle surprise.... couldn't be bothered. Maybe we shut the unis too, don't be letting people get too far ahead.....

 

[WolfeTone]

And those are the numbers they should stay at. A niche in the system not something to be encouraged.

Says who?
If there is a demand for it, why not cater for that demand?

Is someone going to transfer into Gaelscoil who has come from abroad or outside the Gaelscoileanna system?

I don't understand this question. I cannot think of one area (outside Gaeltacht areas perhaps) that does not cater for children whose parents wish not to attend an All-Irish speaking school, can you?
It's simply not a problem. If there is a shortage of places in schools it is in spite of Gaelscoileanna, many of which are oversubscribed, not because of Gaelscoileanna.

And what kind of kids are they likely to be?

I assume the same type of kids that attend non-Gaelscoileanna?

Kids who move around a lot. Kids with accents.
Kids that certain types of parents don't want their kids schooling with.

If you are inferring a socio-economic prejudice by some parents in school selection it is hardly unique to Gaelscoileanna?
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here, parents are notorious for wanting privilege (perceived or real) for their little dotes when selecting which school they should attend.

 

[WolfeTone]

East Belfast pre-primary Irish school opens

 

[Purple]

Good article in todays Irish Times about the IRA terrorists who killed Garda Jerry McCabe. Good Republicans all, with their close links with Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein tried to have them released under the Good Friday Agreement, as they should have been since the murderers of police officers in Northern Ireland walked free under the same agreement.
Two of them were collected from prison by a then Sinn Fein TD and one of them married a Sinn Fein activist who later became a TD.

Sinn Fein supporters are like Trump supporters, once they've joined the cult they can excuse and explain any and all reprehensible behaviour by their cult leaders.
The reaction of the public here to the killing of Jerry McCabe really highlighted our hypocrisy when it came to what we expected the Unionists in Northern Ireland to swallow. We were indignant that a bunch of criminals who killed a police officer while committing an armed robbery should be regarded as political prisoners but were perfectly okay with the same criminals North of the Border walking free.

 

[WolfeTone]

The reaction of the public here to the killing of Jerry McCabe really highlighted our hypocrisy

Absolutely. The conflict was waged for 25yrs, in which time British governments systematically tried to supress the political ideology of a United Ireland in favour of a partitioned island. There is little doubt that the two-state solution was/is the long term goal in many quarters.
On one hand, standing as righteous up holders of law and order, justice and democracy, on the other hand, actively ordering mass executions of its own citizens and covering up the dirty deeds for 50yrs.

As for McCabe murderers. They are a shining example of the bankrupt and futile IRA armed struggle.
25yrs of criminalisation, shoot to kill, censorship, torture etc against a redundant futile 'armed struggle'. The consequences demonstrated in any countless manner of events.

 

[Purple]

Absolutely. The conflict was waged for 25yrs, in which time British governments systematically tried to supress the political ideology of a United Ireland in favour of a partitioned island. There is little doubt that the two-state solution was/is the long term goal in many quarters.
On one hand, standing as righteous up holders of law and order, justice and democracy, on the other hand, actively ordering mass executions of its own citizens and covering up the dirty deeds for 50yrs.

As for McCabe murderers. They are a shining example of the bankrupt and futile IRA armed struggle.
25yrs of criminalisation, shoot to kill, censorship, torture etc against a redundant futile 'armed struggle'. The consequences demonstrated in any countless manner of events.

Only one side are looking like they'll form the government of this country after the next election so I'm not worried about the things the British got up to, no, I'm worried about the terrorists and bank robbers and what they'll get up to when they are in power here. They'll be running the protection rackets and licencing the drugs while at the same time running the Justice system. It's beyond bizarre.

 

[WolfeTone]

I'm worried about the terrorists and bank robbers and what they'll get up to when they are in power here. They'll be running the protection rackets and licencing the drugs while at the same time running the Justice system. It's beyond bizarre.

Of course you have evidence of this? According to every Garda report going back over a decade now, the PIRA 'army council' exists in residual form engaged in exclusively political activity, including leaflet dropping. That there are no military structures or activities in place.

 

[Purple]

Of course you have evidence of this? According to every Garda report going back over a decade now, the PIRA 'army council' exists in residual form engaged in exclusively political activity, including leaflet dropping. That there are no military structures or activities in place.

I don't live in a bubble or a fantasy world. The Shinner links to the killer of Jerry McCabe are well documented. Their links to the Kinahan Hutch feud are also well documented, including a Shinner councillor who kidnapped and tortured another "interested party" in said feud.
Both the PSNI and the Gardaí said as recently as last year that they believe that the IRA army council runs Sinn Fein.

This article from 2005 predicted the IRA's future as a mafia style criminal organisation. I think it would require a wilful level of naivety to think they some or most of it turned out to be correct. So, given that the police in both this country and in Northern Ireland are of the opinion that the IRA runs the Shinners and that the IRA is a mafia type gang I hold the view that the Shinners are intertwined with criminality. When they run the country there'll be no stopping them and the same useful idiots who vote them in will still excuse their behaviour because once you're in the cult ou can't leave.

 

[Peanuts20]

Can't ignore the fact that one of the killers of Jerry M

I don't live in a bubble or a fantasy world. The Shinner links to the killer of Jerry McCabe are well documented. Their links to the Kinahan Hutch feud are also well documented, including a Shinner councillor who kidnapped and tortured another "interested party" in said feud.
Both the PSNI and the Gardaí said as recently as last year that they believe that the IRA army council runs Sinn Fein.

One of the killers was collected from prison by a Sinn Fein TD on the day he was released.

 

[WolfeTone]

The Shinner links to the killer of Jerry McCabe are well documented.

I know, I never suggested otherwise. Merely identifying how in the course of the conflict, some of those who take a high moral ground of righteousness are also linked to killers.

Both the PSNI and the Gardaí said as recently as last year that they believe that the IRA army council runs Sinn Fein.

Yes, but so what? Is it involved in criminality? Is it recruiting for military purposes?
No. There is a residual IRA element engaged in wholly political activity as part of SF strategy.
This is what the political system had been crying out for for years. For the IRA military campaign to end and to engage in wholly political activity.

I hold the view that the Shinners are intertwined with criminality.

You are of course entitled to that view but I would consider it grossly inaccurate.

 

[Purple]

This is what the political system had been crying out for for years. For the IRA military campaign to end and to engage in wholly political activity

Yes, that would involve them stopping diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling and various other criminal activities, or do you believe that they stopped all that after the Good Friday Agreement?

 

[Purple]

Can't ignore the fact that one of the killers of Jerry M


One of the killers was collected from prison by a Sinn Fein TD on the day he was released.

Martin Ferris actually collected two of them from prison. I suppose the Sinn Fein stance would be that they were volunteers on active service and Gerry McCabe was a casualty of war.

 

[WolfeTone]

Yes, that would involve them stopping diesel laundering, cigarette smuggling and various other criminal activities, or do you believe that they stopped all that after the Good Friday Agreement?

No, as far as I know it took some period for it to stop. I'm pretty sure some of it still goes on but there is no evidence that SF are beneficiaries of it. If there was, it would be all over the news.

Martin Ferris actually collected two of them from prison. I suppose the Sinn Fein stance would be that they were volunteers on active service and Gerry McCabe was a casualty of war.

That's exactly their stance. I do not agree with it, it was a crime plain and simple. No different to the stance the BA, backed by successive British governments had with the massacre of innocent civilians for 50yrs before. Who knows how much support the IRA would have been denied if the perpetrators of those crimes were dealt with in the manner that should have been appropriate rather than covering up for so long.