Key Post Be very careful about agreeing to Direct Debits

Re: Huge Difference Between a Standing Order and a Direct Debit.

panathon - get a call from whom? The bank?

Whether it's a direct debit, standing order or cheque that's potentially putting you overdrawn the bank may decide to telephone you (if you are a particularly good customer) or they may decide to simply bounce in the absence of a lodgment.
 
Re: Huge Difference Between a Standing Order and a Direct Debit.

As i found out to my peril certain companies have entered into agrements with the banks to allow paperless DD. No signature required ever, totally unstoppable.
 
Re: Huge Difference Between a Standing Order and a Direct Debit.

When bills come in on paper in through the post, I pay by ET - Electronic Transfer via online banking. I refuse to pay DD for ESB/NTL/Bord Gais/Eircom Management Fee.

Only DD I have is mortgage, VHI, Life Assurance (Royal Liver) and Life assurance (or is it insurance??) that you take out with a mortgage.

Reason is that I don't always have the money in the a/c - I get paid mid and end of mth depending on the mth - public service, paid fortnightly and most DD's are at a certain time of month and at times when I've not got the money, but waiting to be paid..

I heard that about DD some year's ago - there was an article in the Irish Independant I think.

NTL discriminate people who don't take out DD by charging an extra 2/3 euro. I'd rather pay that bit extra and where I have control than being on a DD but I do disagree with their methods.

I do understand that some people aren't on the net (say my parents for example) but even they still pay by cheque or cash rather than by DD except Eircom and Bord Gais which is I think on DD.
 
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I'm renting out a room in my home, and the lodger asked for my bank details so he could put the rent in it every month by direct debit. I was reluctant about giving him my bank details, so i set up a new current account, specifically for his rent. I presume this is a safe option. Is there anything I need to watch out for? Thanks!
 
Must be a standing order. Lodger said direct debit. Will correct him. thanks. Whats the difference anyway?
 
Yes, Lizard, it would be a standing order that your tenant has set up, i.e. the tenant has given a direct instruction to his / her bank to pay a fixed amount to your account at certain regular intervals, weekly/ monthly/ whatever.
Direct debits involve 3 parties, i.e. the customer, the bank and the company (e.g. ESB, Bord Gais etc) who will debit the customer's account, based on a direct debit mandate to do so.
The OP was pointing out that people are not always aware of what they are signing in completing a direct debit mandate.
 
See post I made in August on DD

I have said many times on AAM that I will not set up a DD due to past problems. I am a BT customer and do not pay by DD, they email when the payment is due and I either pay on-line or over the phone. With ESB I use open 24. It is in their own interest to take control of your payments. My son was paying DD for many months after stopping a service (he should have check his bank statements). He has lost this money.
I have refused electric supplies from Airtricity and Bord Gais because they insist on DD only, even though I could save money by changing. If we all refused DD it would be in our interest instead, and they would soon stop insisting on DD.
 
Re: Huge Difference Between a Standing Order and a Direct Debit.

I've worked in financial services for over 11 years and agree with Anne Marie.

Direct debits are a timebomb. Only sign up for one if there's a gun to your head.

The indemnity scheme is all very well but you will still be inconvenienced while you wait for the funds to be credited back to your account.

Three years later, still in banking, and my opinion hasn't changed.

give direct debits the two fingers and take control of your own finances.
 
I switched to Bord Gais and agreed to pay by Direct Debit - purely for the reduction in rate. It is the only Direct Debit that I have. However I circumvent the Direct Debit every two months by paying through my bank's online system as soon as the bill comes and immediately contacting Bord Gais to inform them of this and not to present the Direct Debit for payment for that bill as it has already been paid. So far so good. I do stress that I have to make contact with Bord Gais immediately when I get the bill as to delay even by a couple of days could mean that the direct debit has been sent to the bank for processing.
I have what most people consider a direct debit against my credit card for a telephone/broadband bill. This is technically called a Regular Payment and there seems to be no rules or regulations regarding it's implementation, as opposed to Direct Debits. So far, so good in that also. I keep an eagle eye on every bill, statement, invoice, receipt - everything and it amazes me how many mistakes I find - and how long it can take to have them rectified. I also keep the same eagle eye on some friends' accounts. One case still going on is a friend of mine who, on my advice, switched his telephone/broadband account from Imagine to Perlico, in August. What should have been his final bill arrived in September with 4 daft charges on it. I contated the company and explained, in detail what was wrong. I contacted them by both phone and email. It was agreed that the charges were wrong and I was instructed that that bill should be ingored and all would be rectified by the following bill - which it wasn't. The 'bill' arrived in October with two of the erroneous charges rectified, but not the other two. Again I made contact, both by phone and email pointing out the errors and again was told that I was correct, and to ignore the bill and all would be corrected in the following bill in November. In the meantime two letters demanding payment for overdue amounts arrived, despite being instructed to ignore the bills. November's 'bill' (for an account ended in August!), and though it had a credit on it, it was not for the correct amount and when I contacted Imagine regarding this, they could not explain where this figure came from or what it represented. They yet again agreed with my figures, which, incidentally means that they actually owe a few euro back to my friend since August, are correct, they said yet again, to ignore the bill, and yet again that all would be rectified in the next bill - December's!
So be warned, anyone who reads this, and please tell as many as you can, please check your bills, line by line and don't just look at the bottom line.
I don't mean to single out Imagine for undue criticism as I have found that there are an incredible amount of billing errors with different companies. I've also found that they can be addressed and rectified, but it can take huge amounts of time and patience, and organisation. Whenever I make a contact, or they do - I make note of the date, time, their name, what department they work in and the details of the conversation. I find that it is very useful and indeed essential to do this. I try hard to treat kindly the Customer Service Agents as they have very very limited scope in what they are allowed to do, and mostly it involves one of two things - getting their supervisor or sending an email to another department.
I know I've rambled a bit off the point here and ask your indulgence for that.
Please, be diligent in watching your bills, and organised in how you attempt to deal with the errors that you will inevitably spot.
 
My 2p - I ordered NTL a month ago, but then had second thoughts and cancelled the order the next day. No problem, everything cancelled... Legally speaking, no contract is in place between myself and Chorus (all contracts can be cancelled within 7 days - cooling off period)

A few days later I got a call from their dispatch office about the appointment to install broadband. Told them I'd cancelled everything. Ok, no bother, sorry to disturb you, I'll update the system...

Get a bill in the post for the full amount, plus equipment, plus install. Call them. Sorry, order only partially cancelled, all cancelled now...

Bill is direct debit, so I call them back - are you sure it's cancelled? Actually, no, it's still not cancelled, their Cancellations team will call me back.

No call back. Call them again. Asked to speak to a supervisor - not available. Agent promises heart and soul to ensure order is properly cancelled.

At this stage I had no confidence in their ability to deal with this so I wrote to the bank instructing them to not allow the DD. I then called them and they informed me that they CANNOT STOP A DIRECT DEBIT, but will initiate a refund immediately if the money is taken.

Fortunately Chorus/NTL seems to have gotten the message as the money wasn't taken, but I'll be checking very closely every month.

Avoid DD!
 
...I then called them and they informed me that they CANNOT STOP A DIRECT DEBIT, but will initiate a refund immediately if the money is taken.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. One real problem with the Direct Debit Scheme is that BANKS or individuals in banks don't know what the rules are! [see ]
The Rules state:

Obligations of the Paying Bank
The Paying Bank is the account-holding banker of the Payer, and has a key role in ensuring the trust of Payers in the Direct Debit Scheme (including Direct Debit Plus). The Paying Bank must exercise the normal bankers duty of care on behalf of the Payer. Without prejudice to the other provisions of these Rules the following checklist summarises the principal obligations assumed or to be assumed by a Paying Bank in connection with the Scheme.
5 Procedure for cancellation or amendment of DDI & for failure to act on cancellation or amendment of DDI.
Accepts instructions for cancellation or amendment of DDI’s from Payers. In the event of receiving such instructions, the Paying Bank must promptly notify the Originator in writing substantially in accordance with the form set out in Appendix 8.

(DDI is a Direct Debit Instruction)

So the Rules say that if you want to cancel a direct debit instruction you must instruct your bank that you wish to cancel it. Your bank must then promptly contact the originator.

With most compliant and customer focussed originators, if you ask them to cancel the DDI, it will happen but if you want to go by the rules then you should only have to contact your bank (the Paying Bank). And if your bank tell you different then ask them if they have ever read the Rules? Maybe supply them with a copy from the link above!!!!

Dem is de rules!!!
 
Just a recent example of always being aware of direct debits even with big companies.

I had an issue with vodafone. I went to pay my bill on line as I have done for years to discover a note on my account showing a direct debit payment. When I contacted them it transpired someone (I suspect the same person who got my bundle price all wrong when I renewed my contract) had re activated an old direct debit which thankfully was for a now long closed Halifax account!
 
I had a recent issue with a well known electricity provider. I cancelled my standing order via my internet banking but the provider was able to reschedule the S/O by using a different name.
 
A standing order cannot be set up by someone else on your behalf Alwyn. Standing orders are under the control of the payer. You pay out. If a bank restarted a standing order without direct instruction from you then you have a complaint to make to them.

Are you sure it was a standing order? Are you sure it was cancelled?
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again. One real problem with the Direct Debit Scheme is that BANKS or individuals in banks don't know what the rules are! [see ]
The Rules state:

Obligations of the Paying Bank
The Paying Bank is the account-holding banker of the Payer, and has a key role in ensuring the trust of Payers in the Direct Debit Scheme (including Direct Debit Plus). The Paying Bank must exercise the normal bankers duty of care on behalf of the Payer. Without prejudice to the other provisions of these Rules the following checklist summarises the principal obligations assumed or to be assumed by a Paying Bank in connection with the Scheme.
5 Procedure for cancellation or amendment of DDI & for failure to act on cancellation or amendment of DDI.
Accepts instructions for cancellation or amendment of DDI’s from Payers. In the event of receiving such instructions, the Paying Bank must promptly notify the Originator in writing substantially in accordance with the form set out in Appendix 8.

(DDI is a Direct Debit Instruction)

So the Rules say that if you want to cancel a direct debit instruction you must instruct your bank that you wish to cancel it. Your bank must then promptly contact the originator.

With most compliant and customer focussed originators, if you ask them to cancel the DDI, it will happen but if you want to go by the rules then you should only have to contact your bank (the Paying Bank). And if your bank tell you different then ask them if they have ever read the Rules? Maybe supply them with a copy from the link above!!!!

Dem is de rules!!!

That link doesn't seem to be working. But I looked over the IPSO website. It's quite confusing, but there is no sign that they are a regulatory body, allowed to set any legally binding rules.
 
I had a recent issue with a well known electricity provider. I cancelled my standing order via my internet banking but the provider was able to reschedule the S/O by using a different name.

Your issue appears to be with your bank!
Your bank cannot allow any third party to control your bank account!
 
That link doesn't seem to be working....

Current version


Everytime they update 'the rules' the file, and therefore the linkm changes.

It is usually somewhere on this webpage



... set any legally binding rules...

"The essence of such an arrangement is that of the total integrity of and trust in the Scheme. All Participants must work together to ensure that such integrity and trust is maintained. For such purposes Participants assume certain responsibilities as listed below:
...
· Sponsoring Banks:

  • must adhere to the Rules of the Scheme...
...
· Paying Banks:

  • must adhere to the Rules of the Scheme..."
 
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